The FRONTLINE Interviews
Anna Eshoo
U.S. Representative (D-Calif.)
Anna Eshoo has served as a U.S. Representative (D-Calif.) since 1993.
The following interview was conducted by FRONTLINE's Michael Kirk on Nov. 17, 2021. It has been edited for clarity and length.
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Pelosi’s Early Years
So, your first impressions of Nancy Pelosi.
Well, I met Nancy Pelosi in, I think, in the mid-70s, 1970s.So we have—we became friends when our children—my two and her five—were all very young.So we've been—I've seen her wear many hats and be elected to the Congress and then rise in the ranks and serve as speaker more than once.
You must know plenty of stories about Baltimore and being raised in Baltimore and what she learned from what they call, at least in the book, "Tommy the Elder" and her mom, "Big Nancy."Tell me a little bit about what you think she carried through her life from those experiences, especially the political and personal in Baltimore.
Well, Nancy was born into a very highly regarded family.Her father served in the Congress of the United States and mayor of Baltimore.The firstborn of the family—there were six sons; one son was lost at an early age.Nancy was the baby and the only girl, so she was extraordinarily special.
And I think two things that stand out to me.First of all, they were a family of great faith.Great faith.They were—her mother and father were at Mass and Communion, her mother daily, was a daily communicant.Her brother Tommy was as well.So everything that they did and how they lived was through the lens of that faith.
Nancy is deeply faithful.And I think the day that she was born, she was—she was baptized a Catholic but also baptized a Democrat.
And so those—I think that those two powerful elements really shaped her, but faith first.
When you talk about faith first, what does that mean to her, do you think, to be so, I guess, religious?If it's part of her life in such a way, how does that manifest itself in how she acts?
Well, the Gospels are highly instructive, and certainly the Beatitudes are instructive to her and her life.So it—her—she has lived her life through that lens.And you know, that's an all-inclusive lens.You know, "the poorest amongst us," that is—that is the fabric of Nancy Pelosi.
I look at video of her as a child.I look at her walking with her dad, at all of his first inaugurations to the mayoralty, and I try to imagine: What is that girl, that young woman, thinking about in the midst of all of that, a family with all that power?Yet they seem humble.They're not living in a fancy mansion somewhere; they're in the neighborhood.What do you think that young girl is thinking about, when she's in the midst of all of that?
Well, it was her father's job.That was the family—it became the family business.And they—she was born and raised in Little Italy, and her mother—her brother told me, Tommy said, "Daddy was a great politician, but," he said, "Mommy was the powerhouse."She was the powerhouse.And so, you know, she had two exceptional figures.She was well-loved.She was secure in that, and that's what shaped her.
We hear a lot about the "favor file" and how people would line up and come and ask for things, and Big Nancy would listen, and Little Nancy—more meant as a description than who she was—Little Nancy would take the notes on yellow pieces of paper and learn about people's needs and et cetera.So the mother—it's true, Congresswoman—she seems to be a really strong presence, but it also seems like the dad limits Big Nancy.He won't let her work; he won't let her run own business.She had this great idea for a business.What lessons does Little Nancy take from that?
Well, she came to understand how women, as you just described her mother, were really held back.That's the way it was.She broke the mold, though.Little Nancy broke the mold, and she helped break the mold for other women.So it wasn't just for herself; it was for others.
When she came into the Congress, there were so few.… But as she rose through the ranks, she made sure that, in recruiting important candidates, wonderful candidates, she was—had a singular undertaking, and that was to bring more women into the Congress.And she did.And she still does.
One of the things that was fascinating in looking at her back story … what were the options?Her dad didn't even want her to leave town to go to college.A lot of people said her options were to be married or to be a nun.
Well, those were the options for us: teacher, nurse or nun.But again, she broke the mold.But it's a very interesting thing to me, because I think many people, in looking at her story, her life story, believe that she had a trajectory in mind, and that was to run for public office.But that was never her thinking.She did not—she did not—that's not what she sought to do.When Congressman Phil Burton died, his wife, Sala, was elected in a special election and held his seat.And then she became very ill; she had cancer.And when she was dying, she said, "I want you, Nancy."
I remember Nancy saying at that time, "I felt as if I had Phillip on one shoulder and Sala on the other."And so she ran.And we know what the rest of the story is.
Did she ever tell you what it was like to have five kids in six years?… She didn't have help; she didn't hire fancy nannies or au pairs.She's in charge of this group of kids.… How did she describe it?
Well, you have to be very organized.And so they had an assembly line, a built-in assembly line, making the sandwiches to take to school.Everything they did, each one had their job to do.It's a deeply devoted mother, deeply devoted.And, you know, I think that she understood from her own family, her own mother.Her mother was an extraordinary role model for her.And it was a joy.
Nancy and Paul love babies to this day, to this day.So, you know, they have—they have five victory gardens in their children, and then their children's children.So it's a great sense of fulfillment for them.But it is—they are the joy of their lives.
Looking back on her life, what do you think was her biggest setback?
Her biggest setback?Well, I think that, on the political side, Nancy ran for national chair of the Democratic Party, and she didn't make it, and that was, I think, deeply disappointing.I think perhaps at that time, she, in many ways, romanticized the Democratic Party, and then she saw firsthand, you know, how the knives come out and, you know, and all that's part of an internal campaign, in terms of the party.
But I think that that opened another door for her.And at that time, Sen. Mitchell [D-Maine], on the heels of that, of the national chair's race, he asked her to head up taking back the Senate.She had enormous respect for George Mitchell, and so she accepted that role, and she went all over the country raising the resources that were absolutely essential for a Democratic victory.And she succeeded in that, partnering with him.
And so, you know, she was on a national stage, having accomplished that.And there were so many that saw firsthand how exceptional in every way—in terms of strategy, resources.So when she ran for Congress, she said, "I know how, I know who."And on her campaign signs, it said, "A voice that will be heard."That was quite prescient.
Pelosi’s Early Political Career
When she's running in San Francisco, I think there's 14 candidates in the race, and a raucous group they are.And here's Nancy, portrayed as this rich dilettante from the Presidio, living the good life and now just playing around in politics, especially the gay candidate—I can't remember his name now.
Harry Britt.
This is in the midst of AIDS and all the urgency of that.I watched that debate from KQED in San Francisco where they're all there, and there's noise and arguments, and she kind of emerges.What did she do?How did she distinguish herself?How does she win that race, Congresswoman?
Well, first of all, they underestimated her.But she understood that women were underestimated.She's highly intelligent.She served on several boards.She knew issues in depth.She was not, you know, quote, a "party girl."And that's what they had on the signs in San Francisco against her, so—but she came through that primary, and she was on her way to Congress.
I remember going up to San Francisco.We had ironing boards, and these ironing boards we set up all over town and registered voters.So every time I use my ironing board, I think of that race.It was intense.She had an extraordinary ground operation in the city.And she came through that.
Once she did, she was on her way to Congress. …
When she arrives in Washington, tell me what she's confronted with.I, of course, am thinking about the old boys club, which Washington definitely was.As you said earlier, there were just a few women there, and many of those women were the wives of deceased elected officials.Help us understand what that world was, that man's world was, and how Nancy Pelosi had to operate in it.
Well, first of all, she already had established relationships with many in the Senate, going back to the role that she played in taking the Senate back for the Democrats.But Nancy is a lady.She has an inner refinement about her, and obviously an outer refinement as well.And they quickly, I think, learned that she was gifted, that she was gifted.She didn't come into the Congress to take it by storm:"Here I am." But she built relationships across the caucus, and, you know, that really served her well.
Jack Murtha [D-Pa.], you know, who was there, he had such deep regard for her.And you can't help but be with Nancy and see through conversations how she would build relationships, how gifted, really gifted she was.And she's always deeply respectful of everyone.Everyone.Even if they are not respectful of her, she's a lady in every way.
Her remarks, of course, when she came into the Congress, it was a special election, and her father was on the floor, a former member of Congress, right there when she was sworn in.I was up in the gallery.I had flown to Washington, D.C., because I really wanted to see her raise her right hand and be sworn in.Sat with her mother and I think her aunt in the gallery.So it was a beautiful moment.
And when she made her first remarks on the floor, she spoke about the crisis of AIDS.And there were many that thought, how can you come to the Congress and your first speech be talking about this?But she was highly purposeful.She always has been, highly directed.And she set that stake down, that the Congress of the United States had a responsibility to the human beings that were—all the souls that were being lost, and that we had a direct role to take this crisis on, and then what we did, what the Congress did, through its funding in terms of research, that we would not only face this crisis, but we would succeed in it.
But that was her maiden speech on the floor of the House.
There's a Tuesday dinner that she goes to.We've read lots of stories and talked to some people, talked to Chuck Schumer, who was part of that group in the early going.And I think some of the men, I know the men feel a bit chagrined about how they acted in those days.I guess there were women in the group like Nancy, but rarely called on, even when it came to talking about childbirth, where the men went on and on.How did she manage to keep going and keep her mouth shut for as long as she did in that group?
Well, first of all, you know, the Bay Area delegation was absolutely thrilled to welcome Nancy into the Congress.So it was George Miller [D-Calif.]. And at George Miller's house, right, on the House side, the renters in his house were Chuck Schumer [D-N.Y.], Marty Russo [D-Ill.], Leon Panetta [D-Calif.] in George's house.So that became a famous house because of who was there.
Barbara Boxer [D-Calif.] was a member of the House, obviously, and she was thrilled when Nancy joined her.So there were two women from the Bay Area.Imagine that!
They called it the gang, and Tuesday nights they would always have dinner, all kinds of conversations.
When I entered the Congress, I quickly learned that you'd start to say something, and they would talk right over you, talk right over you.And there is that famous conversation of the guys talking about when their children were born and how difficult it was for them.Nancy remembers it well.It's an often-told story.Everyone laughs about it.But when you step back, it is a snapshot of how things were.
The way the story goes, she's finally asked a question, and she says, "Well, finally you want to know my opinion about something."
I know, yeah."I had five children in six years; let me say something about this."It's a wonderful story.It really is.
I hope it's true.
It is true.
Pelosi and Bush
Let's talk a little bit about [President George W.] Bush, the war.Nancy's by now a veteran.She's been on the floor for years.She now has a feeling, an urgent kind of need, it feels like, to run for something, run for higher office in the party.The war becomes the topic for her in lots of ways.And that's a big step.Here's not only a woman but a Democrat taking on the president, very popular at the time, president of the United States.And she really went after him.Talk about that.What was her decision?What was her thinking?Why the war?Why Bush?It's a big step.What was going on with her, Congresswoman, at the time?
Well, just to put the issue in some context, Nancy was by then a senior member of the House Intelligence Committee, and so when the—when the president began to pursue a war resolution, she was in so many ways the go-to person for members seeking out, you know, her advice, her views.And she was—she was instructive.
Now, she didn't preach to members.Nancy understands that, you know, there's always the input before a vote, always the input, trying to get the best information, and, as I said, a senior member of the House Intelligence Committee.But the last call is made by the member that holds the vote.
And so she voted against the Authorization for the Use of Military Force, the AUMF, as did I, as did a good number of Democrats.And it was—it was a march to folly, but she understood the intelligence, and she was a quiet but firm place, a highly instructive place to members.She played a key role in that.
She gets hammered by Rush Limbaugh and others in that time.Traitorous, the vice president called her traitorous.How does your friend and colleague Nancy Pelosi handle the heat from the rising, emerging right wing of the Republican Party?
Nancy has an inner fearlessness about her, and she knows that there are knives, arrows; that that comes with the territory.But that has never deterred her from what she thinks is right.And I can't emphasize that enough.She has a, you know, a quiet solitude about herself, and she's unafraid.She has an inner courage about her.And once she has made a determination, she stays with it, regardless of what the incoming fire is going to be.
There's a great story about when she's whip and invited with the Gang of Eight to the Oval Office, and she's sitting in the room, and she realizes: My God, I'm the first woman ever to be in this situation, with all these men.Decisions made about women and children for a couple of centuries have happened, and there has not been a woman in the room.Does that sound like a true story that I keep hearing?
Yes.Well, I've heard her tell the story, and that as she was seated at that table, with the president of the United States, Cabinet members, whomever was in the room, that she felt the suffragettes sharing that seat with her.And so she understood the history-making aspects of her place at the table.
Let's talk a little bit about the divisions that are happening in the country at the end of, during, let's say '07—the Democrats have won in '06, '07, '08, '09—around the ACA [Affordable Care Act].… How does she feel about, in general, partisanship versus bipartisanship?She's never really had to deal with Republicans in either Baltimore or San Francisco.What was her thinking about that?They were going their own way.Did she have thoughts about what was happening, in terms of the divisions that were getting started in the country?
She had a strong sense that the majority has a responsibility to govern and to produce for the American people.And so, understanding that there would be opposition to a national plan for healthcare for the American people, that that was a promise of many presidents almost over 100 years, and she had a deep, deep commitment to making that come true for the American people.
And so all during, from July of 2009 to Christmas Eve, the House developed its legislation.The Senate developed theirs.And then we lost Sen. Kennedy in August of 2009.And then there was a campaign, obviously, to fill his seat, and a Republican, Scott Brown, won the seat, and it changed the majority in the Senate.
And so she had a plan.She knew that—she knew that the stakes were extraordinarily high.I remember at one of her press conferences, the press asked her how she planned to do this, and she said: "Well, you go through the gate, and if the gate is locked, then you go over the fence.If the fence is too high, then we'll pole-vault in.And if that doesn't work, then we'll parachute in.But the American people must have healthcare."
Pelosi and Obama
There was a real division between her and [President Barack] Obama, especially at the beginning.He really wanted to work with Republicans.He really believed that was going to work through [Max] Baucus [D-Mont.] and others, get [Chuck] Grassley's [R-Iowa] vote, got to have some Republican votes.She—it seems to me, in her life experience and the things we've been talking about, she knows better, and she says: "We've got a supermajority, Mr. President.Let's get on our horse and ride.Let's do it."
Something that is not spoken of and little appreciated is that she always starts out trying to secure bipartisan votes.Absent that, she has always understood that you have the responsibility to produce.And so it was more than evident that the Republicans were solidly opposed to having a national health plan, and so she set out, obviously, to accomplish that.
Now, when the Senate flipped, it changed everything, obviously, because the Democrats no longer had—could meet the 60-vote threshold.And so, you know, when she was at the White House with the president, they spoke to her about a skinny plan, a smaller plan, and she stated very clearly that she was not for that.
So she proceeded, and she had—she knew that the—that she had to go through reconciliation, that the Senate would, I believe, send over a bill.We would make the changes through reconciliation.She insisted with Harry Reid, at that time the minority leader, that every Democratic senator sign a letter that stated that they would accept the reconciliation.
And so in 2010, the bill was passed and signed into law.The votes in the House were, I believe, 219-212.
And she was a weaver.She had to weave together progressives, Blue Dog Democrats, pro-lifers, you name it—all the different parts of the Democratic Caucus.And she skillfully put those votes together. …
How does she get people to take a hard vote, even though it might cost them an election?
The high importance of it.The high importance of it.There's so many chapters of her speakership, and she has always reminded people that the American people sent us to the Congress, each one of us elected by our constituents, each congressional district. But that it's not about our reelection; it's about our duty to the country, whether it's national security, whether it's health security, economic security.
I recall so well in 2008 when she had picked up the phone and called at that time Secretary of the Treasury Hank Paulson, and she said, "I'm not comfortable with what I'm reading, and I think that we need to meet."Congress had finished its business; it was a Thursday, late in the day, and she said, "I'll stay over so that we can meet."And he said, "I don't think it can wait."And she said, "Well, I'm the one that called you."And he said, "Well, you know, the president was not ready to—for me to have this conversation with you."
So she immediately put together the leadership, majority and minority leadership of the House, of the Senate, secretary of the treasury, the chairman of the Federal Reserve.And at that meeting in her office, they informed her that if the Congress did not act—now, this was a Thursday—that by Monday our national economy would collapse.
Nancy goes straight to the top, in terms of national security and the national interest, every single time.I mean, you look at the various crises over the years and what she has dealt with as speaker of the House. That's always where she goes to.And it's nothing short of extraordinary.
It's a funny thing you mentioned Bush telling Paulson not to raise any red flags yet.Obama, as we mentioned, was disregarding her, especially at the very beginning, and Trump, as we know.It is interesting to me that so many presidents—does she care that it seems like so many presidents, at least in the beginning, kind of disregard her, don't reach out to her?I don't know if it's true about Biden or not, but maybe.Is that true, what I'm assessing here?And how does she feel about it, if it is?
I think each one of them have had a deep regard for her.And if they didn't, if they didn't at the very beginning, that regard and respect certainly grew.And it was the case with the first President Bush and Mrs. Bush; they had deep regard for her, a real respect for her.Nancy Reagan—Nancy Reagan drew up the list of who should be invited to her funeral service; Nancy Pelosi was on her list.
And so I think now, how many former presidents are in that lane?They know who and what she is and how skillful she is.
I don't think—I know in my lifetime, and maybe future members' lifetime, we won't ever see the likes of her again.That's how unique she is.
Republicans Campaign Against Pelosi
Republicans in 2010, after the ACA, with the rise of the Tea Party and everything else that's going on, they go for her: $70 million worth of ads, 131,000 different kinds of messages out there.She's the poster child for everything that's wrong with government.It's not even Obama.They don't go for him like they go for her.This is in the midterm elections.How does she feel about that?What is her reaction to being the epicenter of the vituperation, hatred, whatever it is, of the Republicans?
Well, you'd be surprised.She said it's a compliment—backhanded compliment, but a compliment.She said, "If you're successful, then you become a target."And you just described what that targeting looked like.It was ugly.It was very low.It still is.But she understood that if you're not successful, no one is going to mention your name; it's not worth it.
So she saw it as a backhanded compliment.
Of course her caucus gets slammed, really beaten.A lot of members lose their seats.She's in the political wilderness in 2010.What's that like for Nancy Pelosi?
She's a builder, and she understood that she had to keep building.It was a new challenge—and that it was a worthy challenge, because when you have the majority, you write the agenda.And so from day one, starting with the night before, and the next morning, she began building and reweaving, and, you know, encouraging members that it could be done, that it was—that these undertakings are—they're not just singular undertakings.It's about the country.It's about the country.
That's where her unswerving belief in, in the United States, in our nation—that comes from a very deep place.It's not a game to her.It's not a game to her.It's not the singular undertaking for power.It's about governing and what you can do, when the American people give you the majority, what you can accomplish.
In 2012, it's sad to see, but she's a little toxic around the White House, around the Obama White House.She's going to do her 25th anniversary. She sort of jokes about her victory tour around America, but Obama is not available.The White House has distanced him from her.I know she says it doesn't bother her, but she couldn't even get Obama to call her and talk about it.… It must have been really hard on her.Can you talk about it?
Well, I can't talk about the details of it because I wasn't involved in it.Nancy is a first-rate professional, so she doesn't move by emotion.That's not—that's not how she operates.There are so many bumps in the road, so many personalities.Of course there are disappointments, but she always finds opportunity in the moment.She seizes it.She not only sees it, but she seizes it. She uses it.
So no one can mess with her determination.No one.And she may be small in height, light in weight, but this woman in her high heels has an inner determination that is unmatched.Unmatched.Presidents don't deter her.Crises don't deter her.She has an inner compass that is—it's so extraordinary.I don't know what all the adjectives are, but I've seen it time and time again. …
Pelosi and Trump
She has watched while she's in office the rise of the Tea Party, Freedom Caucus and all of that.And this unlikely candidate then becomes president, Donald Trump.The first meeting, three days after the inauguration, is when she calls him out for lying about winning the popular vote, really speaking out of turn. Anything about that episode surprise you, that your friend Nancy Pelosi called him out, from the very first moment?
No.She was shocked by what he said because, you know, he talked about the votes, and I think he mentioned to her that he was—he didn't think he was going to win, so he was surprised, and everyone else was.So many others were shocked.And when he talked about the votes in California and that there were, you know, illegal votes cast, or whatever, I mean, he so mischaracterized the vote in California, and she said, "Mr. President, that simply is not so."
But I think that he totally underestimated her as well.
Steve Bannon sitting across from her, he said he positioned himself to sit across from her.He's watching as she rolls her eyes as Trump is talking, and he says to others later: "This woman is an assassin.Watch out for her.She's going to come and get us."
She has a very strong moral compass about her, and that is—that's always there.You know, when Donald Trump was elected president, Democratic members of the House felt a real challenge, because the Democratic base wanted this man impeached.Now, he hadn't committed any crimes yet.But that was there.Now, she absolutely disregarded that—that she would have nothing to do with that.She said: "No, that's not what we are to do.We have an agenda.We know that we have a battle on our hands.And that's what we're—that's what we're sticking with."
I think people have forgotten that, early on in his presidency.But then, you know, there was more history to be made, and she followed the facts.She followed the facts.
You know, our Founding Fathers had a—they had a primal fear that very powerful people in our government could be corrupted by foreign sources.And so she followed the facts, and that was grounds for the first impeachment of President Trump. …
The famous Dec. 11 meeting at the White House where she and [then Senate Minority Leader] Chuck Schumer go over, sit in the Oval Office with Trump, and he tries to bully her, and she snaps back.This is the famous red coat–sunglasses meeting.Who was that Nancy Pelosi? …
Well, before she walked out—and there was that now, obviously, the, you know, the beautiful coat and the sunglasses—it was a picture actually that the White House made public, when she stood up and was pointing at the president.That picture captured the power of Pelosi, where—talk about speaking truth to power, and that he should not underestimate the power that she has brought to the table, bringing her entire caucus with her.
So the whole world saw that.The whole world saw that.And I think there was applause around the world.It's a very, very—to say it was a powerful portrait doesn't begin to describe it.
Is it right for people to say that, because of that moment, whatever little fractures or rumbles were going on, or big ones, going on inside the Democratic Caucus, that sealed the deal for Nancy Pelosi?Not only nationally did it—somehow she became a celebrity, a meme of her own—it could have gone the other way.People could have said: "Oh, look at that.There's a woman scolding him.Who does she think she is?She's acing like a mom and not a speaker."It went completely the other way, including inside the caucus.Talk a little bit about that, what the impact of that was internally on Speaker Pelosi's caucus and her own aspirations.
Well, I think that when she stood up and she was captured in that—in that picture standing, she captured many things: the separation of powers; co-equal powers; the speaker of the House of Representatives, second in line to the presidency; and using that power not personally, but the responsibility of the power that had been given to her by her members.And I think that's what—to me, that's what that moment captured, and her moral authority that is Nancy, and speaking very directly to a—what can the words be?—a dishonorable person.Again, the public interest, the national interest, she captured all of that.
And that moment, that moment I think was a defining moment for, yes, the person, but also the speaker of the United States House of Representatives.It's a sacred mantle, and it was not to be diminished by a man that was, in her view, diminishing our democracy.
The Squad: How do you look at that?How did she look at that?Was it hard for her? …
Well, first of all, Nancy does not—it's not personal to her.It's business.It's very important business.I remember her saying at a press conference when she was asked about the Squad, she said, "Four votes."Four votes.So, she was placing them in context. …
January 6
Let's talk about Jan. 6, because our time is getting short.Her office is defiled, and the building is her responsibility, in lots of ways, as the speaker, at least the House part.… All of you are being assaulted and attacked.But the woman you know so well and we're learning about, help us understand what that probably meant to her, to have the office taken over, her shuffled off, taken to Fort McNair, all of her staff hiding under the tables.Take us there, will you, Congresswoman, and explain what that was probably like, from her point of view.
She understood that it was the defilement of the tabernacle of our democracy.There is, to her, a real sacredness to it.And I wasn't with her when this was all taking place.And but—I was there when she returned to the Capitol and came to the Ways and Means Hearing Room.There were some of us that were hiding in a room off of the Ways and Means.It's a very large hearing room, and there were many, many—there were many, many members there.And she came to that room, and she announced that we were going to be going back into session and at what time; that it was essential for the people of our country and the people around the world to see that our democracy would continue.
And she spoke in that soft, beautiful voice of hers.But that inner, you know, the inner strength and courage and determination to do the right thing was there again.It was about the national interest.It was about our security.It was about giving people confidence that the Congress would continue its work, that the votes, the electoral ballots would be counted, and that there would be the transition of government.
I don't know if she gets angry.I see no evidence of anger in a lot of things she does.Maybe she keeps it in really well.Everybody gets angry.Do you think she was angry about what happened?Did you see any of that?
I remember her talking about the workers in the Capitol that had to come in and clean up what the insurrectionists had done, how they had defiled the Capitol, and just seeing them having to clean and mop the floors because they had done terrible things—let's just put it that way—and her heart went out to these people.Her heart went out to the most humble of the workers.And I think that we'll all take to our graves that day and what took place.
But she brought everyone together and brought the House back into session.And that was—it was remarkable, remarkable.
For the next 14 days, she is, in effect, running the country. Not really, but she calls [Vice President Mike] Pence the next day with Chuck Schumer and tries to get the 25th Amendment moving.She calls Gen. [Mark] Milley [chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff] the day after that to secure—in hopes that the military is securing the nuclear arsenal.That's Nancy Pelosi back in charge.What was she doing, do you think?
She was looking after the country.As I said, going back to 2008, you know, she goes right to the top floor, right to the top floor, the national interest, the national security of our country.She has such a presence of mind.As I said earlier, she never blinks.She never blinks.She's a blessing to our country.
We talked to [former House Majority Leader] Eric Cantor [R-Va.] about what it was like to be a rival.
… He said, on that week when she called Milley and looking for Pence, he said, "Why wasn't she talking to the American people, offering solace and comfort instead of pouring gasoline on the fire of partisanship?"What do you think of Cantor's statement?
I think he misses the point by a wide mile.She was looking after our national security.She was looking after our national security.So it wasn't—she didn't see it to be her place to be addressing the American people but to take care of the American people at the highest levels.And so her questions of Gen. Milley, as we know now what they were, she was spot on.Here was a president that emboldened people, emboldened people.And this was an assault on our democracy.It was a coup!They were insurrectionists.And the president had both hands in it.He encouraged them.He didn't even ask them to stop.He sat in the White House and watched what they were doing.They came to kill.They came to kill.
And so for her, the questions, her pointed questions of Gen. Milley, were the most important questions to be asked.
She, of course, had been a little reluctant in the first impeachment, finally coming along.We talked to Congressman Schiff [D-Calif.] yesterday about it.Her feelings about the impeachment process after the insurrection, after Jan. 6?Why is that initiated and rolling so soon after the events?
Well, this is something that had really never taken place.This was the enemy from within.This was not a foreign enemy; this was the enemy from within, and, as I said, a direct assault on our democracy to unravel an election.That's the core of our democracy, that people speak through their vote.And that is—it's sacred.
So again, as I said, she always goes to the top floor, the national interest, the national security.Every single one of the crises that—where she has, through her service, that's what she goes to.So it is—most people or many people think that she acts—that those actions across these crises was done for political purposes.I don't see it that way.They're not political purposes.It was the national purpose and the national interest and the American people.That is the Constitution.
I think if you zip her open, you'll find a copy of the Constitution there.That's how much a part of her thinking and her being [it] is.
And of course, you know, over the years, the political charges are, you know, far left, San Franciscan, and her response is that she represents the city of St. Francis and then goes into the song of St. Francis.So, you know, she's very proud.
But she has always gone with the facts.With the facts.
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