The FRONTLINE Interviews
Julie Chávez Rodríguez
Biden Campaign Manager
Julie Chávez Rodríguez was the campaign manager for President Biden’s 2024 re-election bid. She previously served in the Obama administration and is currently the campaign manager for Kamala Harris’s 2024 presidential campaign.
The following interview was conducted by the Kirk Documentary Group’s Mike Wiser for FRONTLINE on March 22, 2024, prior to Joe Biden’s withdrawal from the presidential race. It has been edited for clarity and length.
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Biden’s 2020 Campaign
Going back to 2019-2020, who is the man who you see at that point, as you become involved in the campaign and in the White House?You have a unique perspective because you're not initially working for Joe Biden, but for Kamala Harris.But that year it would be Joe Biden who would be the nominee.Can you tell me from your perspective why that year was the year for Joe Biden after all of the other times he had run and considered running for president?
Well, I think what really motivated President Biden to run for office was really seeing what was at stake in this election and his unique ability to be able to bring together a broad-based coalition that could defeat Donald Trump and do so in a way that really mobilized and energized Democrats from so many different walks of life.I think his working-class background and his ability to speak to union workers was so critical as we thought about the important coalition we were bringing together.
But he also had a career working with civil rights leaders, connecting with folks like my grandfather César Chávez, really finding other ways to really just, again, bring together people that were focused on improving the lives of themselves, of their communities, of others.
And it was a really, I think, unique moment for our country to be able to find someone that could create that big tent for the Democratic Party in the ways that he did.
COVID starts in sort of the middle of the primaries, but it's the Trump presidency.How did that, do you think, shape creating a moment where Joe Biden would arrive on the scene and after all of these other attempts become the nominee?
Well, I think someone with his experience and track record, the deep relationships that he had in so many different arenas as we looked at, people that chose to support him and endorse him early on.Also, you know, I think just his, again, unique understanding of really what the country was looking for.They did want someone that was going to unify the country, that was going to bring people together, that could speak to our better angels, and that really had the values, the core values that he represents when it comes to things like family, decency, hard work.Those are things that I think so many people saw in him, and I think for me personally, being able to see in him a deep connection to my own experience and to my own family.I grew up in a very Catholic household, a really big and vibrant family that was involved in not necessarily politics in the same ways that he was, but in public service and being of service to others, and just being able to understand that if we could bring people together, that there was a lot that we could be able to get done.
So I think those were just some of the things that really resonated with people in that moment.And then as we experienced the pandemic and COVID, I think people wanted a leader that would provide a sense of certainty, of stability, of the ability to get things done and to be able to be an effective national leader in a moment where our country was facing something that it hadn't faced, at least in our generation, before.
What was it like to run a campaign in the middle of a pandemic?
Had you asked me if I would ever run a presidential campaign or be a part of a presidential campaign working from my living room, I would have probably looked at you as though you had come from outer space.But in reality, you know, it was definitely a challenging time.We had to find new and unique ways to be able to connect with voters.
And I think what we saw is the president's ability to just be able to break through, even if it was on Zoom, to find those connections, to find those ways, to be able to speak to what voters cared about and the issues that they wanted to be able to connect on.
For me, that was—it was pretty remarkable.He's someone who does get a lot of energy from being out on the campaign trail and connecting with people directly and personally.And so thinking about how we could replicate and recreate that online was a challenge.But his ability to break through was pretty amazing.
I also just remember, there were ducks in the pond near where we did a lot of the video shoots, and so there were times where we'd be in the middle of a briefing or some kind of a meeting, and all of a sudden you'd have to hear the ducks and close the window.So it was some of those other unique things that, again, you wouldn't—or at least I hope we don't run into those challenges in 2024, where we have to find ways of quieting the ducks in our Zooms.
We've wondered, too, whether his past and having had to deal with such public tragedies in his life made him suited for a moment like that.
Well, definitely.I mean, he's someone who can empathize.He's someone who understands the impact that tragedy and trauma can have on an individual or on a family.And, you know, as we were going through a period in our country where collectively so many people were experiencing loss, he oftentimes would reflect on the fact that people would be sitting around the table and having empty chairs and really understanding how personally challenging this was and emotionally challenging it was for so many people who experienced that loss, and at the same time trying to get by with just day-to-day life, whether it was homeschooling their children while having to work on Zoom from the other room, trying to figure out how to make ends meet.
I mean, all these things were so front and center for him because he is someone who really does, I think, empathize and care deeply about how do you address people's critical needs, especially in these moments of tragedy.
Adding Kamala Harris to the 2020 Ticket
I want to ask you about the decision to hire your former employer, Kamala Harris, to ask her to be on the ticket.But one thing that stands out is there's that moment in the debate between the two of them about busing.It looks like a very tense moment.Can you help me understand, was that a tense moment between the two of them?
Yeah.I mean, we have all seen the primary process play out, and primaries are definitely primaries.But I think what was really powerful was being able to sort of come together as one ticket, and what I considered an extremely historic ticket, to be able to have the first woman vice president, first Black woman vice president, to be able to join the president and to continue to build the coalition of support that I mentioned that he had already started to build, but I think she only strengthened it and reinforced so many of the critical kind of voters and supporters that we were really looking to reach.
And it's been exciting to see their partnership continue to grow and for me, just very personally rewarding, having worked with both the president and the vice president, getting to see them so up close and personal and to see what really drives them, what motivates them, and again, to really see those deep connections in terms of my own life and experience as well.
Were you surprised when you got the news that she was going to be on the ticket?What was your reaction, or where were you?
I wasn't totally surprised, to be honest.I was hopeful.I was encouraged by what I had seen as a really thorough and thoughtful process.I think, as he often said, this was one of the most important decisions he could make as president, and such a critical one.
And so I wasn't surprised, but I was really excited to say the least, to know that two of the political families that I had been a part of were now coming together under one ticket.
Biden Fighting for “Soul of the Nation”
People have told us that the rhetoric that then-candidate Biden used in that election was very stark: “the soul of the nation.” At the convention, he talked about light and dark.And it's almost religious, the terms that he's using.Is that how he saw that moment?
I think, after seeing really what happened in Charlottesville, [Virginia,] it was such a huge catalyst for him deciding to get into the race, seeing the kind of hate, division that was exhibited and on full display.And for him it was something that was really threatening the soul of the nation.It was something that was a challenge for us as a thriving democracy.
And it's something that continues to drive him today.He oftentimes will talk about when he's traveling abroad and meeting with foreign leaders, especially when he first came into office and was working hard to restore the U.S.standing in the world, he'd go up to leaders and say, “America's back.” And they'd ask him for how long.
And that's something that he sees and takes as an important part of his duty, of his responsibility.And it's one of the reasons why he's decided to run for reelection, is because our democracy is in a very fragile state, and he understands what it's going to take to continue to prove what we know is possible: that a vibrant democracy can continue to do big things like major infrastructure laws, tackling the climate crisis head-on, being able to invest in manufacturing in the future.These are all things that for him are so critical, to be able to prove just the possibilities of what we know and believe are true here in this country.
President Biden
Joe Biden is someone who talked about being president when he was seven years old.He tries multiple times, and he finally wins the election, but he wins it in the midst of the pandemic, in the midst of multiple crises.Did you see a change in Joe Biden from the candidate to the president-elect?
I don't know if so much I saw a change in him as opposed to a change in focus.I think it was really clear, once he stepped in as president-elect, that we had two converging crises as a country that we needed to address immediately, that there was a real lack of federal leadership that had led to massive deaths in our country, and so he stepped in and, with a sense of real urgency and of real focus, that we needed to get the pandemic under control.We needed to make sure we got vaccines produced and out, and schools reopened, and small businesses reopened.He knew that that was sort of an urgent and necessary action on his end.
And so I think the shift was really just one of focus and being able to ensure that he was going to govern in the best way possible.
And then he comes in, and at that point, [there is] the talk about the election being stolen.But then Jan.6 happens, which is an attack on American democracy.It's also an attempt to delegitimize President Biden's election.It's also the middle of the pandemic.I mean, can you help me just to understand what the administration was facing as it comes into office on Jan.20?
Well, I mentioned a little bit about the pandemic and the sense of urgency to get an emergency relief package done.That was for him sort of, I think, square one, making sure that we were able to deliver the relief that we knew cities, states, counties, tribes needed in this moment, and so really getting to work and focusing on what are those needs.And he was able to put forward one of the strongest emergency packages, not just because of the amount of support that it gave, but the fact that it was done with the level of flexibility, that it gave direct allocation to every single jurisdiction in the country, that cities didn't have to wait for states to get money before they can get their allotment.He was able to just really focus on, again, addressing the most urgent need of the country in the moment.
At the same time, as you mentioned, Jan.6 was a real challenge.I don't know that we really had a lot of time to process so much of really what it meant and sort of the threat that it posed because we had to get to work and we had to focus on making sure that the government was, again, addressing some of these most urgent needs of our country in the moment.
You mentioned the similarities between your families and your grandfather and these politically active Catholic families, and I think there's a bust of your grandfather in the Oval Office, and there's one of Robert Kennedy, who I gather is one of President Biden's—the Kennedy family was also sort of an idol [for] him.Can you help me understand that—his relationship with the Kennedys and with the Catholic political families?
Yeah.As you mentioned, the Catholic connection, I think, is one that—he is a man of deep faith.It is one that continues to be a strong moral compass for him.He oftentimes would say that he believed in the kind of important leadership that the Kennedys had been able to put forward.But he couldn't necessarily see JFK sitting at his kitchen table, but he could see Robert Kennedy sitting at his kitchen table.
And so I think there was a connection.Robert Kennedy had worked a lot on issues related to poverty and to really being able to—oftentimes, the president talks about it—about rebuilding the economy from the bottom up and the middle out.And so I think those were some of the connections that he saw with the kinds of ways that Robert Kennedy at the time was looking to address poverty and inequity in the country.
And with my grandfather, he tells this great story of him almost losing an election because of my grandfather, because he came to Delaware really building support for the United Farm Workers.And with Delaware being an agricultural state, having a young politician supporting the farm workers at the time wasn't necessarily seen in the most favorable light.But given his strong union background and his belief that unions have always improved the lives of workers, he stood strong and stood with my grandfather, and that was sort of the beginning of their connection and their relationship.
And it was such an honor for me.I remember the first time walking into the Oval Office and just seeing that bust there and not fully being prepared for emotionally how just I guess the impact that it would have on me.But to see my grandfather there just—it was less about him, less about my family and more about the farm workers that it represented and the deep, deep roots that this president also has in fighting for working people.
You said that he's influenced, and things that I read, by his Catholicism.Do you mean that in terms of social policy or personally?
Personally.For him, you know, it's important that he takes time to be able to practice his faith, given the busy schedule that he has.It is something that he often does even as he's traveling in the country.It's an important part of, I think, his own sense of connection.And it also—he'll share oftentimes how important his faith was as he dealt with so many tragedies throughout his life, whether it was the loss of his first wife and daughter or, later, the loss of his son Beau [Biden], that that faith has been an important part of his healing and his ability to just, I think, continue to just understand what those experiences mean in his life.
What is the relationship like between the vice president and the president?You read about tensions in the press and her trying to find her place.From the inside, do you see that?What's the relationship like between the two of them, the professional relationship?
Yeah, no.They have a great relationship, and I actually really enjoy seeing the two of them together.But what the president has I think really helped to engender within the vice president: He had this role before.He knows how important that partnership is and has, I think, really maintained and ensured that that is a partnership that he took from his experience as vice president into the current one that he has with Vice President Harris.
And whether it's the regular lunches that they have, or as we sort of tackle critical issues, or even as we come together for campaign briefings, it's just, it's great to see such a strong partnership as we—especially as we head into this reelection campaign.
So one of the mysteries we're trying to figure out is the legislation, right?There's the stimulus, the infrastructure, the Inflation Reduction Act, the CHIPS Act.There's a long list.… My two questions are: How hard was it?But the other one is the question about, why does it not seem to resonate for so many Americans and for so many voters?
Well, I do think we do have a laundry list of accomplishments, which is definitely something to tell.But I think sometimes we need to make sure that we're really bringing it down to connect with people on what it does mean for their everyday lives.How has it helped to improve, whether it's their communities, their schools, just the cost of living that they're dealing with?
And so for the president, so much of this legislation, he does want to make sure that it is translating to just the basics.I think that's, for me, why the issue of $35 insulin is one that's so important for us to continue to talk about, because it is really tangible, and it's a tangible way to talk about so much of the legislation that he's put forward.
I think other areas that we continue to really highlight: the work that he's done around reducing student loan debt, because we know that that's been transformative for so many people who are able to kind of take on that next phase of their life, whether it's starting a business or buying a home or being able to address other things, starting a family, so really being able to translate some of these bigger policy accomplishments to just, what does it mean at the kitchen table?What does it mean to an average family that is looking to improve their own lot in life and hopefully make life a little bit better for their kids?
Biden’s Age
You're running in the midst of the questions about mental acuity and how old is he.Was that a difficult decision for him to make, the questions of his age being out there, that decision to run for reelection?
I don't think it was a difficult decision because for him, again, he sees what still is at stake and knows that there's important work that we have yet to get done, whether it's lowering the cost of child care or housing, continuing to implement so much of the legislation that he's enacted.It's not like all of the bills that we've passed have all been implemented to date.
And just—not to mention just again what's at stake, the fact that we do have a Supreme Court who has overturned Roe v.Wade and have a patchwork of laws in the country that are impacting women in the country or providers; the fact that we still do have to continue to address the climate crisis as we're seeing the impact of weather events, tornadoes and the like, that he is—I've gone on one too many disaster trips with him as we've seen the impact that superstorms are having in communities.
So for him, it really is a sense of duty, of service, of one that—he is focused on doing as much as he can to make sure that he is delivering.
So for him it was a matter of, this was his calling, and also, he's demonstrated that he can bring together the coalition that we need to beat Trump, and he is clear-eyed that we're going to do it again.
So the last question is the one we ask everybody, which is, what's the choice on the ballot in November?
Well, the choice I think before voters right now is a president and a vice president that have a vision for the country that wants to move us forward, that wants to continue to protect the fundamental freedoms and rights that we have, that wants to continue to lower costs and make sure that everyone has an opportunity to succeed, to get ahead, versus the other guy, who wants to continue to enact revenge and retribution against his political opponents, who wants to demonize whole communities, including my own, who wants to continue to give agency to some of the most hateful rhetoric that our country has ever heard or experienced throughout its history.
That's the critical choice that we have before voters right now.
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