The FRONTLINE Interviews
Laphonza Butler
U.S. Senator (D-CA)
Laphonza Butler is a Democratic United States Senator representing California. She was appointed in 2023, assuming the seat left vacant following the death of Senator Dianne Feinstein. She is a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Prior to her tenure in the Senate, Butler was president of EMILYs List, an organization dedicated to electing Democratic pro-choice women.
The following interview was conducted by the Kirk Documentary Group’s Mike Wiser for FRONTLINE on August 6, 2024. It has been edited for clarity and length.
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Harris’ Run for California Attorney General
Let me just start at the beginning.When did you first come across, when did you first meet Kamala Harris?
I believe it was either late 2009 or early 2010.She was still district attorney in San Francisco, and she was running for attorney general to the state of California.The union that I happened to be the president of at the time was in Los Angeles, and she was—you know, California is a big state, so coming down to Southern California as a San Francisco elected leader was a lot of effort to really run and be successful statewide.And so she came to my union to talk with me about how she could earn the support of my members in her race for attorney general.That's where we met, and that's sort of how our friendship really began.
And what was she like back then?
The energy that she gave was—she was very smart, clearly very curious about the work that the members that I represented did every day.I worked with home care workers and nursing home workers who provided care to the elderly and disabled in their communities or in facilities, and she spent a lot of time in that conversation asking me about the work that they did.And so I was very impressed with that.But she also was very serious.It was a curiosity that was purposeful.It was a curiosity about, like, what can the attorney general be doing to help to facilitate better quality of life for these workers?
This was a time when California was at—I think had like a $9 billion structural deficit in its state budget.There was a governor's race that was going on at the exact same time.We were, as a nation, recovering from the 2008 economic crash.And so there was a tense time that this election was really happening in.Can we, as a state, truly sort of pick ourselves up?And the energy she gave was determination, really trying to figure out how she could use this role as a benefit to working families in the state, but also fun.And we smiled a lot; we laughed a lot.And I think that was, again, the beginning of how our friendship really started.
People have told us that was a hard race.…
She did not win on election night.
I mean, it was that close.She's running against a sort of traditional prosecutor from Los Angeles.
Yes.
How does she confront that race? … Was she the underdog in that race?
She was the underdog, and I believe she's been the underdog in every single race she's run and won.But she was absolutely the underdog.I believe when the race started, she was in single digits.And as I said, the race was not called finally on election night.I remember calling her all through election night, texting her through election night.She was in San Francisco, I was in Los Angeles, and we just kept cheering each other on.
But how she was able to put it together, I think, is the great story of California that actually doesn't get the credit it deserves.Most people characterize or think about California as this sort of liberal bastion that is the Hollywood elite and the Silicon Valley tech leaders.California is a beautifully diverse state.It is 58 counties of everything that you can imagine, from urban communities to rural communities, beaches, and deserts, mountains and plain lands.There are people who have a relatively small bank account and don't make a lot of money—the workers that I worked for made, at that time, $9.25 an hour—and you have some of the wealthiest in the world.
And so what California teaches a person who's running statewide for elected office is that you've got to be able to build coalition, and that's how she was actually able to successfully win.I believe, if I remember it correctly, though, the last votes in terms of—that needed to be counted were down in San Diego or Orange County.And there was—it was a nail-biter to figure out where the race was going to finally land.And when it was finally called in her favor, she and I spoke again, and it was a point of pride for me to be able to say how excited the members of my union were to be able to be a part of such a historic victory.She was both exhausted and excited, elated that she had been able to build the coalition that was required to be successful.
And I think she immediately got about doing the work to empower that coalition that she had built.
Harris’ Childhood
So I want to talk to you more about that, but let me ask you, first, as you became friends with her, a little bit about her life's story, or as you understand it, and as she's told you.She talks about her parents meeting at a protest, and she's sort of the result of an unlikely romance.How do you think where she came from shaped her, and her mom and her dad?
I think how she was raised shows up every single day in who she is and how she is presenting, right?She is authentically biracial, both Black and Indian American.You can see it in her presentation, but also she is very confident in that.And growing up in Berkeley, she tells the story about her parents meeting at a protest and where she learned that grown-ups could march and shout.And she tells that story often, being pushed in a stroller, and how that really helped her to create the paradigm of power, how there are people on the proverbial outside who are those marchers and shouters but are members of the advocacy community.And then there are people that are on the inside, who are helping to either try to enact the policies, change the policies that are existing and finding balance in and value in both of those, I think is truly how she was—a manifestation of how she was brought up.Berkeley has a history of being a really, really active advocacy community.At the same time, some of California's strongest leaders come from that part of our state.
And so, I think, she was really able to see both of those tools and assets work to improve the lives of everyday people who were like Ms.Shelton in her community or who showed up at the community center, where she was a part of the dance team.1And really being able to help to change those lives and improve those circumstances I think is where she found her calling for public service.
What has she told you about Ms.Shelton and the day care?
She has said, and I have read, in her books, but she definitely has talked about the importance of those relationships and how it really shaped her.Seeing the importance of women in a community as caregivers when her mom was working, and her and her sister needed to be cared for, she knew that her community was going to be there, whether it was being a part of the dance troupe or making sure that she was going to get a hot meal and where she found true mentorship in those spaces with Ms.Shelton and role models and the families that she was able to be around.And so it is, again, as much as an influence of her life, and the centerpiece, really, I think about how she shows up as a public servant.
You mentioned her confidence.And one of the things we're trying to figure out is, where did that come from?One of the obvious possible places is her mom, who has such an extraordinary journey at such a young age and sort of breaking expectations.How important do you think her mom is to that?
To know that your parent, mom or dad, traveled the world as a young person, alone, in pursuit of opportunity, was able to find love and belonging and to be embraced by a community that had all the reason in the world to “other” her, and you can still see her achieve her life's dream of becoming a scientist, I think that inspires—that has to have inspired an incredible amount of confidence.Knowing, every day, that there are barriers to overcome and that you can still succeed when those barriers show up in your life, knowing every day that, while you may feel alone, there is a community that will wrap their arms around you at the drop of a hat, those are the kinds of things that are just, I believe, so important to how she shows up, the confidence she exudes, the people with great pride that she represents in so many ways.
The other thing that we're trying to figure out is, as you say, she talks about growing up in this being told, “You can do anything, no matter who you are,” in the world that she grows up in.But she also says, when she goes to visit her dad, that there are friends who are told they can't play with her because she's Black; that she's talked about in the context of Trump, “I've heard slights and disparagement my whole life.”
Yeah.
But she doesn't seem to dwell on it.That's not what she writes a lot about.She doesn't talk a lot about it.What is that about her?And does that come from her past, her way of dealing with those sort of indignities and racism and sexism that she faces?
Look, as a woman of color, pursuing greater responsibility, higher levels of authority, breaking ceilings and being the first and only in so many ways, every single day has been about, "How do you move through those things?" And I think what Vice President Harris has really learned to do is to truly learn to understand that those things don't define who she is.Those slurs, those—“Don't play with her because she's Black, or because she's different,” the derogatory attacks that have been thrown her way at every turn, they've not stopped her from being successful.
She's taken on every single bully that has come her way and given them the proverbial punch in the nose and walked away, and gave the kid who was being bullied back their lunch money, to keep the metaphor going, right?She has been able to be successful.She has been able to achieve her goals and dreams as her mom showed her, to not let barriers get in your way.Those are not people or instances in your life who define you.You define you.And she is, I think, an everyday example of not letting things outside her take control of how she shows up and who she chooses to be.
And you think that comes from her mom, as she's facing those?
I think it comes from her mom.I think it comes from her sister.I think it comes from the women and men who have been a part of her life and community and development growing up.I think it comes from being on the campus of a historically Black college.The full experience of her life, I think, have been episodes where a bully has presented themselves, and she has been surrounded by a community that has helped her to develop and display her confidence.And it's one of the beauties of my experience, being at a historically Black college, one of the great things that we actually have in common.
And so look, yes, it emanates from inside her home and her family, but I also think it comes from the fullness of her experience.To be able to say that it is developed from one place I think would be sort of shortchanging it.
Harris’ Years at Howard
So what does she get from her experience when she goes to Howard?She had been, right before that, she had been in Canada, which is a very different environment than she was growing up in Berkeley.What does she get from going to a historically Black college?
Being on the campus of a historically Black university can be life-changing.It is a place where you—a student there can find community.A student can find explanation for things that tend to not make sense: Why am I being marginalized or dismissed?Why is it that somebody is telling my friends they can't play with me because I'm Black?And so you're in an environment where a lot of the students there look like you, and so there is a community and confidence that actually emerges from that.There's a richness in culture that becomes a part of your DNA.You can walk with a greater sense of pride because you understand the history of this community in a way that you may not have had the ability to understand before.
The university that I went to, I had the opportunity—and I know this is true for the vice president as well at Howard—I had the opportunity to have professors who were activists and organizers in the Civil Rights Movement, and to know the experiences of those professors, it was not just to value them as scholars at the front of the class but to truly learn from them as change-makers, as thinkers and leaders.
And that is, in my opinion, a unique experience that I know was life-changing for me, and I believe the vice president has been clear, her experience on the campus of Howard University was life-changing for her.
As you said, her parents had this sort of protest background, and some people have suggested that Howard may have given a different perspective.Here, it's in Washington, and there's an idea of excelling in the system.Do you think that that might have been one of the things?
I think that's selling the history of Howard University very short.The time that she was also on campus was the height of the anti-apartheid movement, and Howard University was the center of a lot of activity here in Washington, D.C.I think it's selling the history of Howard University short with the assassination of Dr.King and the activism that emerged from that campus.
To try to sort of define an experience on the campus of a historically Black university by the city that it's in misses the magic of what happens on that campus, in that community, and frankly, the learning and scholarship that is happening in deep ways, not just about being in the seat of government.But again, understanding the power of everyday people to create change, that is the history of Howard University, and I think that's a part of the legacy that she was able to learn there.
The Decision to Become a Prosecutor
She decides to go back to California and to become a prosecutor, as you said.What was she walking into in the 1990s, as she goes in, as a biracial—as a Black woman, into the world of law enforcement?
I would be supposing if I ventured into the question of what it was like in Oakland, California, in the late 1990s.In the early 1990s I was in a small town in Mississippi.What I know and have learned about the environment in which she was choosing to be in law enforcement as a Black woman was that this was an era that was really focused on elected officials being tough on crime,and what I can understand of that time and era, the height of a lot of drug use, the height of a lot of violence in communities, and to be a historically Black college-educated Black prosecutor in that space must have been incredibly tough for her.
But I think what she wanted to be able to meet the environment with is a commitment to people.And I think that that is how she was choosing to show up.
Harris Resists Being ‘Put in a Box’
She writes a book, <i>Smart on Crime</i>, and it sort of guides the way she is as a district attorney, and she is when she's in the AG's office, or running the AG's office.And people since, as you know, have tried to understand her.Is she progressive?Is she hard on crime?What does it tell you about her as a politician, the approach that she takes, and the questions that people have about where is she on the political spectrum in those years?
What it all tells me is that she's people-focused, and at the center of her thinking is the actual people who are impacted.I think her approach is one that clearly demonstrated that picking one side or the other, tough or soft, is a fallacy, and, frankly, inefficient.What she has offered California, generally how she approaches most things, is looking at the people first.How do these laws actually advance people's lives?We are not here to exist as a government to essentially just put people in jail.We are essentially—the expectation of government is to actually ensure that people are able to be successful.…
It's interesting, just because it's such a different background than so many other politicians come from, it seems like people try to put her into a box, and she seems to actively resist that.
She is nothing if not resistant to labels.She is a woman who knows exactly who she is.She, again, takes a very people-centered approach, and people are not labels.They live complex lives.Their circumstances are sometimes unknown when you are trying to examine the whys and why nots of a particular policy impact.And so I think, again, she tries to truly take the time to understand and then to set a very practical pathway forward to meet the needs of the people in the center and to meet the mission of government, but in doing so, actively resisting anyone putting her in a box of left or right or moderate or liberal.What she, I think, represents is truly that there are no boxes, that what we need to be as effective public servants is in the business of people.
Harris in the U.S. Senate
Does she tell you when she's thinking of running for the Senate or for moving on to the next step?Do you have a sense of why she makes that move?
We have had a conversation.We have had a conversation.And I believe we did—I know we did at the time.It was less about why.I never questioned the why, honestly.There are very few opportunities in a place like California where an opportunity to be in the United States Senate becomes available.She's never been a person that chases history-making.At the same time, she's never going to back away from being the first or only at anything.
And so I'm sure there were those who were suggesting to her that she had the opportunity to be the first Black woman from California, Black and Asian woman from California.My sense is that she also wanted to make sure that the role of being in the Senate gave her the opportunity to engage broader on issues that were not in the purview of an attorney general, and that is clear and apparent to me, when she came to the Senate, of some of the legislation that she started to introduce.
But I do think that it was a thoughtful and deliberate decision for her, an opportunity that doesn't present itself very often, and she wasn't going to run away from it because it had never been done before.
Were you there on election night 2016?
I was.
Can you tell me about that?Because it sounds like such a mixed night for her and for her supporters.
It was definitely a hard night in a lot of ways and a night of absolute celebration in others, to see her and her family up on that stage, having accomplished something that had never been done before for so many communities.I know there were so many people who worked incredibly hard to turn out votes and to help build the kind of coalition that she was going to need to win.
And at the same time, we were all sort of watching our phones to see which—had Arizona been called?Had Texas been called?Had Nevada been called?What was going to be the outcome of the presidential election?And it was truly a night of two different experiences, trying to hold the tension of both the celebration of a friend and a person that I know and trust to do incredibly well on behalf of the American people, not just Californians, and to not know what we had in store as a nation in the election of Donald Trump, and to see Secretary Clinton not able to fully break that glass ceiling was definitely a tension that we were all struggling with in that room.
It really feels like a moment where history could—the history of the country certainly goes different ways, but also her history.She would have been a different senator if Hillary Clinton had been the president.
Sure.
And as the story goes, she rips up her speech, and she gives a speech about fighting.
Yes.
And it's going to follow her in the Senate.How much of a turning point was the fact that she came in at the same time as Donald Trump for Kamala Harris?
The American people would have never gotten to see Brett Kavanaugh and her examination of Brett Kavanaugh as a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, or Jeff Sessions or Bill Barr.I think those opportunities that she had to perform her duties on the Senate Judiciary Committee definitely would not have happened had Secretary Clinton been successful in 2016.And she definitely would have been a different senator.Probably would have been much quieter in some aspects.
But the resistance of what she felt like was potentially an injustice being perpetrated in the name of the American people was something that she just was never going to stand for.And when she sees a wrong, it is her natural default reaction to do everything that she can to address that wrong.And so there were some things that she fundamentally disagreed with President Trump on, some of his nominations, some of his policies.She also was very aggressive in rejecting the Muslim ban, which was the first order of business for a newly elected President Trump.
And so I think it definitely helped to show the benefit of the skills of a trained prosecutor and how she could actually be a part of preventing our country and our democracy from sliding backwards.
When you look at her, and you know the Senate very well now, all of the different senators have different things that they do, and some work behind closed doors.Who was she, as a senator?And you suggested it came from her background as a prosecutor.But why did she stand out, and suddenly, in those two years, America knew the freshman senator from California?
It is because some of the opportunities that she had to lead in the Senate were on full display.It was what was covered by the media.The real truth of who she was, who she is as a United States senator from California at that time, was made manifest in the legislation she introduced.The things that the American people didn't get an opportunity to see, whether it was working with her colleagues to put forth the justice and policing legislation or the anti-lynching bills, the LIFT Act, where she was advocating for working families to get sizable return in their income taxes, but over the months as opposed to waiting until the end of the year.She really began to take all of the experiences of everyday people, women and families.She became a champion of the Black maternal health when she was the junior senator from California.
And so it gave, I think the totality of her Senate service wasn't actually what was being shown to the American people in those hearings in the judiciary.But what was shown to the American people, this incredibly talented, very thoughtful leader who was never afraid to ask tough questions, to be very clear and direct, was what people were sort of really amazed by.
And then when you put those two things together—the direct, tough, skillful prosecutor and the leader who never loses sight of working families—when you put those two things together, that's when you get the real magic in Kamala Harris.
What is it like for her and you to walk into the Senate?She's the second Black woman in that chamber.What is that like?
I'm sure it was different for her than it is for me.She walked into the United States Senate after having been the attorney general in California, after having taken on some of the most heinous criminals in San Francisco as district attorney.And in all of those roles, she was the first and the only.And so when you have had those experiences … at such level of great power and authority, I'm sure it was just a very different experience.There are things, though, that I'm sure were very similar.
It is both inspiring to know that your presence means so much to people who never imagined themselves being able to be in that chamber.And so you carry their hopes and their dreams in a way that can—that you want to be very thoughtful about how you show up and how you engage.
It can be incredibly busy.And so you can feel like there is not a lot of time to go deep on a subject matter.And it is not an experience where you build true community.When you're the only person of any demography, it is not a place where you sort of find deep community.But over time, you build the camaraderie.
And so I would assume there's a good deal of initial sort of loneliness and finding your way as you're figuring out how to do the job.But for her, it's her first time not being in an executive position but as a legislator.The value of those partnerships, and building those relationships with those colleagues, it is an experience that is worth all of the strife that comes along with it.But there is strife.
In the media environment of those Trump years, the criticisms, the sort of misogynistic and racist and her laugh and she’s sort of being taken apart, that's pretty tough for somebody, I would think.
This is not her first rodeo.It's why I started my response with the reference to all of the times in which she has been the only or the first before.So when you've had the fullness of those experiences, you're not surprised by the sexist comments that come at you.You're not bothered by the racism that's being thrown at you, even if it's soft and maybe a little bit unintentional.You know that it's coming, you are ready to move through it, and you are focused on the reason why you are there.
Harris’ First Run for President
She decides to run for president after being in the Senate for two years.Are you surprised?Do you know why she makes that decision?
I think there are a lot of factors that folded into her making the decision to run for president.I think there was so much going on in the world and in the country that I think that she felt like was wrong.And again, she is not a person that, when she sees something going wrong, that she is going to sit idly by.And I think that is the center of what truly drove her to put herself out to be examined at the height and level of a presidential campaign.It really was about how do we ensure the future of this democracy is going to be here for future generations?Again, back to the center of how she starts to think, it is always all about the people of this country, the people of California, the neighbors and little girls that she meets on the trail or in Iowa or South Carolina.I think it really was about "There is an injustice happening, and the fighter in me"—in her—"just can't let it go."
It's interesting contrast, too, between Donald Trump, who's the president at the time, and Kamala Harris, who came up as a prosecutor and who said, “I'm going to work the system from the inside and change it incrementally,” and Donald Trump, who says, “Let's blow up the system.” Do they clash on that level of approach?Is that part of the motivation, her feelings about the institutions and Donald Trump's approach to them?
I think Kamala Harris is a patriot.This is a country that welcomed both of her immigrant parents, and she starts from a place of loving this country.And so any threat to the gift that is the United States of America, she is going to take it on.And there is the experience of the former president's leadership truly being a threat to the institutions that define our democracy.
At the same time, while she is a practical leader, I would also define her as a true change-maker.She wants to make sure that, even as we preserve the institutions, understanding that those institutions have historically left people out, left people behind, not seen or recognized the value of women, communities of color, understood and reckoned with the history of our country and its relationship to Native Americans, she wants to, while preserving the institutions, make them better, make them stronger, help them to be more perfect.And I think that's truly the clash, between somebody who starts from the place of valuing this country in a deep patriotic way and someone who was born on third.
Why wasn't that her year?
It was an incredibly talented, crowded Democratic primary.It was a moment where she was truly introducing herself to the rest of the country.I think there was a lot that was happening in the environment, in the space, and people wanted to be sure that there was not going to be the reelection of Donald Trump.And so while I think it was clear that there was voters who liked many of her colleagues that were running, a great pool of candidates, what they wanted was some certainty and a candidate that they felt like would definitely be able to be successful in 2020, and I think that was just the sentiment of the time.
Harris as Vice President
You've talked about the differences between what she had done before and being in the Senate, and I’ve wondered this about going into the vice presidency, somebody who had been in charge of their office and could make decisions and suddenly walks into the job of the vice presidency.Was that an adjustment for the former prosecutor, for the former attorney general, even the senator, who can make their own statements and runs an office, to walk into being vice president?
… You noted that she had been in Washington for two years prior as a United States senator, and so getting used to being the—the environment of Washington, D.C., is quite unique in and of itself.And there is an ecosystem and a network here in Washington that just does require some deep knowledge and experience and sort of getting out and getting into the mix.And I just think that she was figuring out how to adjust to those kinds of things in addition to building a relationship with President Biden and finding her way in a new job.
All of us have started a new job before and barely knew how to find a bathroom.
And I think the vice president was starting a new job, and not to make it synonymous with any of the rest of the jobs that we start, but there's always a time period that takes some learning in how to execute effectively and how to perform at the height of what's being expected of you.And so sure, that was some adjustment that was required.I think it was a natural adjustment.
As you know, there's all these stories about her and what she said in the Lester Holt interview and what's going on with her office.Do you think that that was her adjustment?Do you think that there was more intense scrutiny on her as the first woman of color in that position?What's your feeling about those first two years in the way she was portrayed in the press especially?
Of course there was some adjustment that was necessary.She had to staff an entire vice presidential office.She's got to figure out how she and President Biden are going to work together.What are her portfolio of deliverables that she's going to be assigned or figure out how to work on?My perception is that yes, there was absolute sexism and misogyny that was a part of the coverage and the examination of every single word she said in a way that had never been done before, at that level of intensity, to any other vice president.And I also think that the media chose to tell the stories the media wanted to tell.
It's not as if she was not working to ensure that the administration was able to confirm judges.It's not as if she wasn't working to make sure that she was the tie vote for all of the significant historic legislation.And a lot of her ideas, from when she was a senator, was actually included in the legislation that was eventually passed, right?And so she was an advocate for this historic legislation that now people want to embrace, but at the time, the media wanted to tell the story, literally, Politico showed—told a story about what headphones she used.You tell me.Was there coverage that could have been different?
It's interesting, because it does feel like a theme in her life.Her mom says, “Don't let other people tell you who you are,” and there's an element of being underestimated.And she, people have told us, starts doing more interviews, starts going to college campuses.Did you see, as the vice presidency progressed, her taking it on, trying to tell her own story more?
What I saw was Kamala Harris.What I saw was the same advocate, skilled prosecutor, public servant, committed to everyday people, and I saw a woman who acknowledged that every single day she was going to be criticized by somebody, and she just had had enough—had had enough of the criticism, had had enough of the dismissing and the name-calling and the bullying.And she just decided that she was going to be Kamala Harris and take it on, take on all of the work that was in front of her.She was going to be a strong champion, an advocate for women and children, as she was in San Francisco.She was going to be a strong advocate for our democracy and take on issues like voting rights, as she had done in her role as attorney general, and defending their access to the ballot.She was going to take on issues like Roe v.Wade and make sure that she was the strongest champion that she could be for women to make decisions about their own health care.
So yes, I think there came a point where not only did she settle into the role of vice president, strengthened and built a clear relationship of trust with President Biden, and got a swagger.
Harris After the Dobbs Decision
And that moment after Dobbs, where President Biden doesn't seem to be entirely comfortable, and she sort of steps up, I understand, were you with her right after that decision came down?
She was the keynote speaker at an Emily's List event that night when the decision was leaked, and it was another opportunity where she, I think, ripped up her planned speech, started from scratch, and just spoke from her heart, where her passion was able to come through, her commitment was able to truly shine.And her determination to be a fighter against injustice and for women and families across this country again got a chance to emerge and shine in a very powerful way.
People were starting to see her a little bit more, but there was still talk going and coming up to this moment, there was still talk of "Joe Biden says he can't step down.There's nobody else to fill it," concern about would she be able to step into their shoes.And then there's the debate moment.Can you help me understand the transition from the questions about her to suddenly we see her on CNN the night of the debate, and people say, “Where did she come from?”
Again, maybe it's because I'm biased.I don't think there's been a lot of transition.The Kamala Harris that showed up as Vice President Harris the night of the debate was very clear and focused as a communicator, talking with the American people about how the Biden-Harris administration was going to move forward, acknowledging full well that it was not a strong debate performance at all but setting the tone as a fighter for people, was the same Kamala Harris that I knew back in 2009–2010.
And so sure, there were people who questioned her capabilities, but they questioned her capabilities when she was running for San Francisco DA.Absolutely, there was a chorus of voices who said she didn't belong, but they told her that she didn't belong in Sacramento to be attorney general.And so at every turn where people have said that she couldn't do it, she shouldn't do it or believed that she wouldn't do it, she has proved them wrong, with the same passion and commitment and patriotic determination that showed up the night of that debate.
She does not do what a character in House of Cards would do, which is to try to push the president out and take it over.And maybe you know—why is that not the approach that Kamala Harris takes for a job she presumably wants?
It's not who she is.She is a very loyal person.She is deeply caring about people that she had relationships with.She's nurturing of her relationships.And to know that it was the choice of Joe Biden to put her in a position to have the opportunity to succeed him, I think she wanted to be respectful of that.I think she also wanted to be respectful that there were 14 million people who had already voted for Joe Biden.And it's just not the character that she has.She was not on the outside as an advocate.She literally was President Biden's—and is President Biden's—governing partner.That is just not the role that you play as a partner.
Harris Becomes the 2024 Democratic Presidential Nominee
I can't imagine things that would be more overwhelming than getting that phone call from Joe Biden, and believing democracy is on the line.There are only months until the election and that you are front and center.Can you help me understand her in that moment, when she gets that news?
There has never been a fight that I've ever seen her back away from, not one.And when she is presented the opportunity, as overwhelming and as an underdog that she might be considered, it's a familiar space.No one ever thought she was going to be the first Black woman and woman of color elected district attorney in San Francisco.No one ever thought that she was going to beat the traditional candidate to become attorney general.And those same people didn't believe that she should be vice president on Joe Biden's ticket.
And so if she was going to listen to those voices, she wouldn't have done anything.And so this is a fight that President Biden defined as a fight for the soul of this country.You're talking to a woman, again, who's deeply, deeply patriotic and loves this country, and if there is a threat posed to it, as described in the proposals of Project 2025 and coming from the comments and speeches of former President Trump, there's a threat to that democracy, there's a threat to the very institutions that provided her family opportunity to grow and to thrive, she's going to defend it.She is not going to back away from a fight.Overwhelming as it may be, she's always been an underdog.She's an underdog in this presidential race, but she is going to fight every single day for every single vote and every single American in this country.
It must say something about what she views America, because going back to 2019, and as recently as now, even Democratic allies saying, "America is not ready.You need a safer candidate." What does it reveal about her that she says, “I can do this”?
It says that she believes in this country.She believes in the people of this country.It says that she believes that the skills that she learned in California to build coalition and to create space for everyone, no matter the size of their bank account or the level of their education, the school they went to, they have value in this great democracy, and we should be investing in all of their dreams and aspirations to continue to be the place of innovation and creativity.It says that she rejects anyone who doubts her capacities.And she has this great deal of confidence, again, that she can meet this moment and be the kind of unifying leader that she—that I believe, and I think she believes, by accepting the nomination, that she believes that she is the kind of leader that is right for this moment.
She's framed part of the reason for this being the right leader for this moment based on her past as a prosecutor, and her opponent's conviction of felonies.How does that part of her past come to play in 2024?
At the end of the day, that's what an election is.It is about a collection of facts.It is about the organizing of your arguments and telling your story to a jury.In this case, running for president, running against former President Trump, she's got to do the work to collect her facts, and the facts are obvious in so many ways.She's going to be very skilled at telling her story to the jury, the American people, who are at the end of the day going to make a decision.It may not be unanimous, but there will be a decision made come Nov.5.And those skills, the skills that she has honed and refined, I think are absolutely the skills that she needs in this moment to not only prosecute the case against Donald Trump, as has been described, but to also argue vigorously for the future of this country.
So the last question, the question we ask everybody, is, what is the choice?What's the choice that voters are facing on the ballot in November?
I think the choice this November is a candidate who continues to represent dreams of the past, visions of division and hate, aspirations of the race to the bottom versus a candidate in Vice President Harris who wants to unite communities across this country, who actually believes that we owe it to future generations to give them a climate, a country where the climate is taken as a serious scientific matter, that is addressed meaningfully on behalf of future generations; a candidate who actually respects women and their right to make decisions about their own bodies; a candidate who is choosing to believe that America's best days are in front of her, not behind her.
And I think, again, the choice is clear.The facts are clear.She is proposing and has been working on policies, again, as vice president to President Biden, policies that bring opportunity and prosperity, investment and capital, to all communities, where when former President Trump had the opportunity to work on behalf of everyone, he chose to give tax breaks to the wealthiest in the nation.
The choice is clear.The facts are clear.It is now about making a case to the jury, telling the story, reminding them of the options that they have in front of them, and hopefully inspiring them to look to what we owe as Americans to the next generation of leaders who will carry this great experiment forward.
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