The FRONTLINE Interviews
Peggy Flanagan
Lieutenant Governor of Minnesota
Peggy Flanagan is the lieutenant governor of Minnesota. She serves under Gov. Tim Walz.
The following interview was conducted by Gabrielle Schonder for FRONTLINE on August 16, 2024. It has been edited for clarity and length.
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Walz Enters Politics
You met Tim Walz at Camp Wellstone.Tell me that story.What was he like, and what do you remember about that?
It was early 2005.It was the wintertime, and it was at the Carpenters hall that's less than a mile away from here, from the state Capitol.And Tim Walz walked into the training, and he's wearing jeans and a T-shirt and tennis shoes, and he's like, “I'm Tim Walz, and I'm a teacher from Mankato, and I want to run for Congress in the 1st congressional district.” And we were like, “As a Democrat?” And he said, “Yeah.” And we're like, “OK, well, come on in.Good luck.” And really, at the beginning of the training, I was like, “Who's this guy?” And by the end of the training, I was like, “Who is this guy?” I had just won a seat on the Minneapolis Board of Education, and so that's one of the reasons I was there [and] was talking about running for office.
And one of my favorite things about Tim Walz is that as a good teacher, he's a good learner and a good listener, and that was on full display that weekend as we went through activities on messaging and stump speeches, on canvassing and fundraising.And he really took it all—he took it all in.He was an incredible student.And after that training, I was just like, I was hooked on Tim Walz's leadership.And I went down to Mankato, in a community where I did not live in 2006, and I knocked on doors, because I believed in him so much.And his first campaign was scrappy and run by a lot of students, and he won because he showed up and was just himself.
And I think that authenticity—the coach, teacher, veteran, big dad vibes, right, that everyone is seeing across the country now—was just on full display that weekend.And I think one of the things I've really been reflecting on since he was named as Kamala Harris' running mate was just how much Sen.Paul Wellstone is also a through line through our entire relationship and through his entire story.It's pretty beautiful.
Also, what inspiration do you see there?
Well, I think the legacy of Sen.Wellstone is still alive in so many of us.It's certainly through Wellstone Action and the training that happened in Camp Wellstone.But really the politics, I think, of authenticity and just being very clear that the point of electoral politics is to improve people's lives, and I see that all the time in Gov.Walz.He talks about a lot, that you build political capital to spend it on behalf of the people who need it most, which is a similar vibe to Sen.Wellstone's.“I'm for the Littlefellers, not the Rockefellers.” And I think that's just a similarity that they have.And you can see that, I think, in how he governs and how he leads.
What issues motivated him to run?
Well, it was clear, I think, very early on that he cared tremendously about education and his students.In fact, it was what happened at a Bush rally and his students being denied entrance into that rally, I think, because one of them had a Kerry sticker.I think he really cared tremendously about freedom of speech, making sure that young people had a bright future.
And that was really, I think, core to his decision.I think now it seems quaint when we talk about the Bush presidency.But I think there were some things that were happening during that time that seemed unjust and unfair, and Tim Walz is a fixer and a problem solver.And I think he saw an opportunity for a teacher from Mankato to weigh in, and in a district that a Democrat hadn't won in a very long time.But people connected to him.
How does he view the role of the government?
I think so much of it is making sure that you're in [a] deep relationship with the people who are most impacted, and that helps to guide decisions.One of the things that we talk a lot about is that we have different lived experiences but the same values, and that was important for us when we launched our campaign, was that here's this guy who was a teacher, a coach, a veteran, someone who grew up in a rural community and represented the ninth largest agricultural district, right, in the country, and then you had a suburban mom, a Native woman, a nonprofit leader and child advocate.We were able, I think, to put together a team.We were able to put together a team that people could connect to, and that was so important.And I see that happening now with Gov.Walz and Vice President [Kamala] Harris, where people can see themselves reflected in that leadership.And the other thing I think that Tim talks about a lot is that we do the right thing even when it's hard.And I think that's one of the core tenets of how he governs, and I think that's one of the core tenets of how he leads.
Walz’s Gun Policy
One issue that's garnering a lot of attention right now is his stance on gun policy.Can you talk to me about conversations you had with him about this issue?
For sure.Well, first of all, isn't it refreshing when leaders can change their mind on something because they see evidence that changes their heart?That, I think, is the most important takeaway.I think [the school shooting at] Sandy Hook really impacted him.And I also think Gov.Walz's position on firearms is a really common position for responsible gun owners.
It's something that we hear at the state Capitol all the time, right, that you can—the Second Amendment and owning a firearm is your right, but also background checks and keeping communities safe is incredibly important.I think his daughter, Hope, was also very influential in his evolvement into this position.And I think we have an incredible community here, too, of organizers from Everytown [for Gun Safety] and Moms Demand Action.
Those conversations and hearing directly from the community, I think, absolutely influenced him.And he saw just how important this issue was to individuals in his own life, to the families at Sandy Hook, and then just the ongoing crisis of gun violence.And again, I think it comes back to Tim Walz as a fixer.And he saw a problem, and he used the power that he had to make a difference there.
COVID Policy in Minnesota
I want to bring you to a much bigger point, which is COVID and the shutdowns here in Minnesota.Curious if there's been criticism of the handling of COVID here.Do you feel like restrictions should have been lifted sooner?
I think that we did the best we could with the information that we had to keep people safe.Very early on in the pandemic, I lost my brother to COVID, and so that was the lens through which I saw the entire pandemic.And I think by just being a proxy and in relationship, the governor saw that, too.We could have never predicted that, so making sure that we were being equitable and intentional about getting PPE to communities who needed it; when the vaccines were available, making sure that we use an equity lens in getting the vaccine to communities who are more vulnerable was incredibly important.
And, you know, we couldn't be in the same room together for almost an entire year due to continuity of government.That was hard because we were so used to literally governing side by side at the head of the table together.But I can tell you he made gut-wrenching decisions to keep people safe and to keep people alive.And I think when you look at the mortality rates in Minnesota versus other communities, I'm proud of what we were able to accomplish together.And I think we never want to endure anything like that again, but [we] did the best with the information that we had.
So sorry about your brother.
Thank you.
The George Floyd Protests
I want to ask about the George Floyd protests.I imagine you were with him for most of that time, making decisions side by side, and I wonder if you can share some memories of what you two were grappling with at the time and what the fundamental dilemma was as violence pertaining to—
So we watched our hearts be ripped out of our chests, and the city of Minneapolis, the heartbreak there that occurred when literally the entire world watched the murder of George Floyd.And I think we are still healing from that trauma.
… And there was policy that came forward from that.There was healing.There was investment in community and in each other.And that's also part of the story, I think, that's really important, that needs to be told.The governor was very intentional in his decision-making, in calling in the National Guard.I feel grateful for how the governor responded in that moment and how—with great care and compassion for people who are just hurting—that that continues to be.I think that is a through line with how he leads.But, yeah, it was really difficult.And I think sometimes when folks … who aren't from here talk about it, it's like, “Oh, that thing that happened,” and it's like, oh, that thing that's still happening, right, that we are still recovering from it, and we are still healing from it....There are just moments, I think, when you take a deep breath, and you just have to do the next good thing, and that was one of those times.
When you hear criticisms about Gov.Walz's response time to the protesters, what do you think of that?Did he wait too long, or that he froze?
I just—I don't think that's true.I think as someone who had 24 years of service in the Army National Guard, he made the best choices he could with a lot of experience and knowledge of what was required in those moments.
After the Dobbs Decision
In 2022, Gov.Walz and you are running for reelection when the [Supreme Court's] Dobbs decision comes down.Do you remember how that factored into the election, and do you remember having conversations with him about the decision as you all thought about it?
Yeah.So one of the things that's part of, I think, the governor's story is just even when he was in the 1st congressional district, a district that is maybe far more conservative than the rest of the state, he always was a champion for LGBTQ+ rights and for access to abortion.It's just been a part of, I think, again, sort of that “Mind your own damn business,” right, that people should have the freedom to make their own decisions.I get really emotional about this moment because we were literally filming a campaign commercial that day, and the decision came down.Immediately people were buzzing about it, and everyone kind of just needed a moment.
In that moment, I called my mom because I was like, what else do you do?You call your mom.And she said, “Get it together.” She was like, “I prepared you your whole life for this moment,” right? And it was—that was incredibly powerful.And I was like, wiped the tears away, hung up the phone.And then Gov.Walz was like, “We’ve got this.This election just became even more important than it was before, and you and I are the ones to get it done.”
And it was very much like, this is our role; this is our responsibility.And that's just how we led.And there's sort of like this energy that he has.And he said it now on the campaign trail with the vice president, but like, “We'll sleep when we're dead.” It's sort of like, there's work to do; we have to protect people.So like, have a cup of coffee, and like, we've just got to keep going.And that was the vibe and continues to be.
And when he signed the PRO Act into law protecting access to abortion here, I brought my daughter and my niece because they needed to witness that moment, and the governor gave Siobhan, my daughter, a great big hug after that bill signing.And that's what it's all about.So he was sort of like—he's so good in those moments to be like, “Listen, this is our task.This is what we've got to do.” And I don't know if him and my mom talked ahead of time, but their message was very much the same, like, “Get it together.We’ve got work to do.”
Let me ask you about this period, because you've seen him from 2005, 2006, to the moment we're talking about right now.Is there a political transformation that's happening for him?Is he getting pulled to the left?Where is he politically in this moment?
Yeah.I think what guides Tim Walz is doing good work for people.All of the policies that we passed in 2023: paid family medical leave, expanding access to child care, a child tax credit that will lower child poverty by a third, universal meals, both breakfast and lunch—like, that in particular, universal meals for kids.He was a teacher for years and was on lunchroom duty.He was on lunchroom duty for 20 years and I think saw the kind of impact that it had on students when they didn't have food at home.You can't ace your geography test if you're hungry.I think so many of the things that he signed into law and that he championed were from just his lived experience.So I don't know that you can call those politics of the left.It's just politics of doing right by people.
And we literally told people what we were going to do for our entire election.So then once we won and we had a trifecta, we just did the damn thing.And that's part of it, too.And I think people can see the governor just has this big heart.We also passed protections for Minnesotans against medical debt, that it can't impact your credit, that creditors can't go after you in an unethical way.That to me feels like—Tim Walz lost his dad when he was a teenager, and they had medical debt, right, and his mom went to work and worked really hard.Social Security was—survivor benefits were there for his family, but that kind of experience, I think also informs how he shows up and how he governs.
Criticism of Walz’s Policies
Let me ask you about some of the legislation critics are painting as quite radical—gender-affirming care, for instance.
Well, I'm a mom, and so I respond to that as a mom, which is that as my child's parent, I should be allowed to make those decisions that protect the health of my child along with her physician.And when we see folks like Nex Benedict, who lost their life in Oklahoma, somebody needs to watch out for those kids and make sure that they're protected.That's what having access to gender-affirming care is all about.Families need a safe place to go.Minnesota is that place.We also outlawed the barbaric practice of conversion therapy.So, again, it's about protecting people's personal freedom to decide what's best for them and their family.I don't think there's anything radical about that.
Are there misconceptions about the bill?
I think people just need to do their homework or be in relationship with young people who are trans.I think once you have a conversation with a family who has relocated to Minnesota from Texas or Florida—and there are many families who are moving here because they want their children to be safe and to simply be able to be themselves—I think once you have those conversations with folks that are apart from the just completely false rhetoric, then you can have real connections with people and conversations.And I think that's part of our responsibility, too, is to tell some of those stories.
Critics have said that Minnesota is no longer as business-friendly, that you and Gov.Walz have created regulatory burdens and high taxes.How do you respond to that—
Well, I'd say that's interesting.And I use that in the most Minnesotan way possible, because we've been consistently voted as a place that is great for business.We're top five in the country for business.And I would say that a lot of the things that we do here help people's quality of life, like investing in education, having a paid family and medical leave program that will allow small businesses to compete and keep their employees.
One of the things that I hear about everywhere I go is child care, which is the backbone of the economy, the workforce behind the workforce.We've intentionally invested in child care, expanded access to child care, so that employers can have a reliable workforce.And I would just say, our investments in entrepreneurs and folks who want to start small businesses here, that's been a top priority for us.So, yeah, I just—I think that's an interesting perspective.
I'm curious if there are any issues you and Gov.Walz don't agree with.
Yes.So we care tremendously about the Minnesota State Fair.It's the best state fair in the country.And he is Team Corndog; I am Team Pronto Pup.So that's a vicious rivalry.The other thing is, seriously, we agree and are aligned on most things, which I think sometimes people find surprising because we have such different lived experiences.But one of the things where we do disagree is with the legalization of projectile fireworks.He's all for it, and I am uncomfortable with it.
So that's a little peek behind the curtain.I'm not sure if you can see the curtain of the disagreements of the Walz-Flanagan administration.
The Harris-Walz Ticket
I want to ask you, the majority of Americans have said in polls that they think the country is headed in the wrong direction.I'm curious: How can a Harris-Walz ticket, which is representing an incumbent party, persuade voters that they can change course?
I think you're already seeing it, right?You see people feeling hopeful and joyful.… I usually say I grew up on the Wellstone for Senate campaign in 2002, seeing that electoral politics was, could be fun and is a place where you can bring forward the issues that you care about.Many of us who were able to live through the Obama campaigns of 2008 and 2012, and now this whole generation of young people who are seeing that politics can be joyful and exciting.And I think about, even just today, the economic platform that the vice president laid out.That's good stuff—helping people, right, with down payment assistance; making sure that new families have—when you have an infant, oftentimes that is a time when you have the least amount of help—and she sees that, so $6,000 tax credit.We often talk about, here in our administration, the first 100 days of life and how incredibly important that is.
So I think people just see themselves reflected in this campaign in a way that they maybe didn't before.And I'm excited.My daughter, when President [Joe] Biden and Kamala Harris were elected, on election night, when she walked across the stage, my daughter was sitting in my lap, and she looked up at me.She was 7 at the time, and she said, “Mommy, she looks like me.” That's a game changer, right?And so politics should feel accessible … and I think that's a lot of what Tim Walz brings to the campaign.And people should feel like they're part of something bigger than themselves.And I think that is the magic in this moment of the Harris-Walz campaign, and that candidly, as a woman, I feel like they have my best interests in mind, versus Donald Trump and JD Vance, who keep talking about cringey things and taking our rights away.I think we can't take anything for granted in this election, and we will have to work incredibly hard to win, but our message and this team is a winning message and a winning team.
Why do you think she selected Gov.Walz?
Well, one of the things I know about Tim Walz is that he really knows how to partner with a woman leader, and I think that's probably something that she saw and that she experienced in their conversations.Also, there's no better hype man than Tim Walz, right?I think you see his ability to connect with folks as a teacher, and certainly as people are talking about, Coach Walz.
But I also think he has really deep experience in areas that are important, right?Grew up in rural Nebraska, and I think you see that reflected in the policies that he's worked on here in Minnesota and the agricultural community.Investing in beginning farmers, emerging farmers, biofuels, sustainable aviation fuel, right?That's so much a part of his rural roots.
And she grew up in Oakland.And I think they both were from middle class families, right, who worked hard.I think they have really similar values, but again, different lived experiences that absolutely complement each other.And you have to like your running mate, and I say that from experience.One of the things that you can see on full display: they're having fun, and you can tell that they like each other.And that, I think, is contagious.
And we have forgotten: Politics should be fun.There should be joy that's part of it, because we're doing big, powerful stuff for people.And … it's in the evidence of Vice President Harris walking out to Beyonce's “Freedom,” right, and Tim Walz walking out to “Small Town” by John—I don't know if it's still John Cougar Mellencamp or John Mellencamp in this moment.But that just really is, I think people see themselves reflected in their team.And that's probably why she picked him.
And I have a little FOMO in this moment, because I get to see—watch my buddy do what he is so incredibly good at, and connecting with people.But Vice President Harris made an incredible choice.I'm, of course, biased.But as a Native woman, as a woman of color, he's an incredible partner and has amplified my voice, and I watch him do the same thing for her right now.
Could we go back to his changing stance on gun control issues?Is there any insight you could provide about how that happened?You were with him at the time, campaigning.I'm sure you were part of those conversations.So we're hearing a lot about that from people, right?So if there's any personal insight?
Sure.One of the things is, in the Army National Guard, Tim Walz was an artilleryman, and he trained people to use guns responsibly.I think that is part of also his perspective.It might shock people to know that I was not a pheasant hunter before I became lieutenant governor, but that was one of the things that he taught me how to do and taught me how to do responsibly.And I think that has been … that also is a place of, for me, making sure that I also have a healthy respect, right, for firearms and for firearm safety.
I don't know.I just think—I just think people's hearts were breaking, and he knew that it was in his power to keep kids safe, right?And I think one of the things that we have talked about and reflected on is how our kids have to do shooter drills.You should be able to send your kid to school and know that they're going to come home to you.So that, I think, is really the perspective.
And also I would just say, over and over again, watching the NRA just completely just brush aside the loss that so many of these families have had is unconscionable.And I think, as they, in my opinion, became more radical, they also became just more disconnected, I think, from where most Americans are, including Gov.Tim Walz.And again, all of the roles that he has and the hats that he wears, I think he's a helper, and this was one of the things that he could do to keep people safe.
How had his life prepared him to run and serve?
I mean, his whole life has been about service.One of … the stories that he tells, which is one of my favorite stories, he grew up in Valentine, Nebraska, and very close to the Pine Ridge Reservation.A lot of the students in the district are Native. ...His dad was a superintendent, and there was an incredible amount of tension in the community.And his dad was very clear that Native students also deserved a high-quality education.And the governor would talk about how there were little gifts of food or little bundles from the Native people in the community that would be on his doorstep.And I think he saw his dad in that role.His first job out of college teaching was on the Pine Ridge Reservation at Wolf Creek Elementary School teaching fourth graders.That through line is now, I think, to the work we've done around tribal-state relations here in Minnesota.But joining the Army National Guard at 17—at 17, right?I see those pictures of him; he was like a kid, right?—who served for 24 years of his life and was a teacher.All of the things that he has done have been in service to others.
Running for Congress was because "I think I can help," right?Running for governor, same thing.And now I think that was part of it, too.He said to the vice president, “I think I can help you.And I'm willing to do whatever you need done, right, to ensure that Donald Trump does not become president again, and that we can keep moving forward as a country.” That is the epitome of who Tim Walz is.
And I would just say a couple other things.My car was making a funny noise, and so he's like, “All right, put it on speaker, and hold your phone up to the engine, right?” And he was like, “Oh, it's the such and such.This is the thing that you should go get at NAPA, right?”
Or—I have permission to tell this story, so don't think I'm putting my kid on blast.My daughter got head lice the day after the 2018 election, and I freaked out.And I called him on the phone, and I was like, “What do I do?” And I'm, like, literally crying.And he said, “Go to Target and FaceTime me once you get there.” So I did.And he was like, “OK.” And I literally had to hold the phone up to all of the different lice shampoos that were available.He told me which one to buy.He said, “FaceTime me as soon as you get home.” So I'm in the bathroom FaceTiming the governor while shampooing my child's hair and then getting the nits out.
That is who he is.He is a helper.And maybe most people weren't like, “Oh, I'm going to call Congressman Walz or Governor-elect Walz because my child has head lice, and I need help.” But that is who he is, right?He consistently brings me snacks to meetings.And whenever he's on the road and goes past a butcher shop, right, he'll always get meat sticks or cheese sticks or cheese curds and bring them back for me.
It's just like, it's just who he is, and I feel so lucky that I have been a part of his leadership journey for the last almost 20 years and have seen him just be consistently authentic but also learn from others. And now bringing that to the national stage is really something.
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