NATALIA: There are hundreds of people out on the streets today and even more police. There is a protest inside all of Russia against mobilization and war.

RANEY ARONSON-RATH, HOST: With footage from inside Russia, a new FRONTLINE documentary tells the stories of Russian citizens who refuse to stay silent on the war in Ukraine,

NATALIA: We have at least 96 detained in St. Petersburg… I do feel scared.

RANEY ARONSON-RATH: The film, “Putin’s War at Home,” follows activists and journalists as they risk arrest and imprisonment for their actions. That includes one of the film’s producers, Vasiliy Kolotilov — himself a Russian journalist. 

VASILIY KOLOTILOV: We knew from the very beginning that the risks for all the contributors and all the team making this film are immense.

RANEY ARONSON-RATH: Kolotilov made “Putin’s War at Home” with director Gesh Mohammad, who joins me to talk about the challenges of getting this important story out of Russia. I’m Raney Aronson-Rath, editor-in-chief and executive producer of FRONTLINE, and this is the FRONTLINE Dispatch.

RANEY ARONSON-RATH: Gesh, thank you so much for joining me on the Dispatch. 

GESH MOHAMMAD: Thank you very much for having me. 

RANEY ARONSON-RATH: There’s so many stories that can be told when a war is going on, and what I’m most curious about is how did you decide to focus on the reaction to the war within Russia and the crack down on dissent?

GESH MOHAMMAD: Well, the story obviously started on the 24th of February when Russia attacked Ukraine and lots of Russians just like around the world, went to the streets, and protested against Putin’s war in Ukraine. But what quickly happened after that was that it just all went silent, and that showed essentially that Putin’s sort of domestic control had reached, um, a sort of authoritarian level, similar to China’s, and we wanted to explore — given that basically independent media had been cracked down on, and there was a mass exodus of journalists leaving Russia — we wanted to explore what was actually happening inside Russia. And was the image that Putin was trying to portray — that all Russians support the war — accurate? Or was it just the illusion he had created over that time period? 

RANEY ARONSON-RATH: So around the time that this reporting was happening — so you were capturing these stories. Russia passed a law, um, that criminalized spreading what authorities there deemed quote-unquote fake news. Can you tell me about what that was and how that affected your characters?

GESH MOHAMMAD: On the 4th of March, Putin signed measures that threatened long jail sentences for Russians who oppose the war or independently report on it, banning what he considers fake news about the military, including any rhetoric that calls the invasion of Ukraine ‘an invasion,’ or calling for peace. Um, and, and it essentially affected all of our contributors because it silenced them for the views that they hold, which is that their views are obviously, that they oppose the war in Ukraine and, and it – but it also impacted, you know, many Russians who are, currently silent um, about opposing the war because it’s illegal to oppose the war in Russia. It’s become very difficult to even call the war a war. You have to refer to it as the special military operation, which is what Putin initially called it. So, so that, that law really had a sort of significant impact on freedom of speech and it essentially meant that a lot of independent media that Russia used to have stopped operating from inside Russia and you know, sort of fled Russia and now, they’re operating from outside Russia. 

RANEY ARONSON-RATH: Right. So for the people who were reporting on the inside of Russia, a lot of them had to leave, in other words, or go undercover. So your film focuses on both activists opposing the war and journalists documenting the human costs of war. And one of those journalists is your co-producer. Can you tell me about him and how that relationship started? How did you start working with Vasiliy?

GESH MOHAMMAD: Vasiliy Kolotilov. He’s an excellent producer who’s been, you know, working inside Russia for almost 20 years, and also outside Russia, reporting on Ukraine and Crimea. We were introduced in the summer as we were trying to figure out how to really tell this story from inside Russia. It was becoming very difficult to find people who could work with us. And Vasiliy was at the time outside of Russia. He was in Georgia looking at things from the outside, but he’s never been in trouble with the authorities. So when I, when we approached him, you know, we obviously talked about all the risks, Um, you know, 15 years imprisonment and eight years for working with,foreign media. But he wanted to tell the story, um, that there are Russians who do not support this war, um, and give a voice to those people. So Vasiliy went back into Russia in the summer And he started meeting a lot of the contributors that we see on camera, but he also spoke to, I mean, about a hundred people, um, who were against the war, but were, you know, too afraid to share those views on camera. Um, and the people that are on camera are the very, very brave ones that, you know, want to take their voice back and their rights back.

RANEY ARONSON-RATH: Right. you really, you really get a sense of how visceral that is. You profiled two really serious journalists who are working in Siberia on a local magazine. That’s Elena and Olga. Tell me about them.

GESH MOHAMMAD: Um, Olga and Elena, um, have been journalists for about also 20 years in Russia, and they used to actually work for sort of state- linked local paper, um, in Siberia. And, and two years ago they, they, they basically wanted to start working on pieces that the local paper wouldn’t allow them to write about. Because they showed sort of local government corruption and they started their own magazine called Baikal People, um, or Baykal Lyudi in Russian, and so they’re always sort of covering slightly controversial issues. Um, and when the war started, there was a disproportionate number of men being sent from their region, um, in Siberia to fight the war in Ukraine. So, so the basically wanted to investigate what I guess had been declared a state secret by Putin. Essentially the death toll is a state secret. So, um, what they did was they started covering the deaths of the men that had gone and fought in Ukraine from their region. Um, and while obviously they don’t know what the national death toll is, they have now covered over 400 deaths in their region. And it’s a very risky job. They could go to prison for that. 

RANEY ARONSON-RATH: When you learned of these two journalists, what went through your mind? In terms of how you would talk to them about their own safety and partaking in a film.

GESH MOHAMMAD: Of course. No, I mean, when we first sort of, when we came across them, we came across them online, we found their Twitter and there were these, they were, they sort of tweeted the death toll every week on their Twitter and we were all sort of amazed because we hadn’t heard about them and we had to sort of do our sort of own due diligence. Was this, were they real journalists? Was this accurate information? But what we were all struck by was their braveness of reporting this on Twitter so we approached them and we got to know them over several weeks online and and we had some more of our team members in Russia go and meet them. Um, and it transpired that the way that they work is very similar to the way that we work. You know, they have a lead and they then sort of verify the information, and you know, we explained that we wanted to sort of film with them and and they were very keen on that because again, much like everyone else in the film, they have been, you know, made voiceless. There is no outlet for them inside Russia. So the only way for them to really, um, express themselves freely is through foreign media at the moment. We had very long conversations about risks and security. When I was explaining all these risks, they were sort of obviously kind of, you know, they were like, well, we know these things, but we want to take part. And they were, you know. some of the most keen, um, contributors I have ever come across in my life. Um, and I think it’s because they’re motivated by truth essentially. They’re not motivated by ideology. Um, they’re motivated by truth. Just like, you know, most reporters are. 

RANEY ARONSON-RATH: Yeah, they’re really, they really do seem so, and their work is so important. What, what’s the response been to their work inside of Russia? 

GESH MOHAMMAD: The Russian state has blocked their websites from being viewed inside Russia. But lots of Russians access those sorts of websites using, um, VPNs and so they, they have messages of support from inside Russia that are sent, sent to them in an encrypted manner. And they also have lots of, um, they also get a lot of donations from readers in Russia as well as abroad because there isn’t enough independent reporting coming out of Russia. It’s hard to say how many Russians support the work that they do. But what is apparent based on their experience is that, that there are people who want to know more about what’s actually happening inside this war. 

RANEY ARONSON-RATH: Gesh, You know, the thing that I kept thinking about, you know, when you have them reporting on the ground, we know they left after the filming. I, I just wondered, you know, are they gonna be able to continue this reporting? 

GESH MOHAMMAD: Um, yes. I mean, it’s obviously difficult to say for how long they’ll be able to continue, but we, we know obviously from speaking to them, recently, after the film broadcast. Um, they are continuing to report on the deaths of Russian fighters in Ukraine. And it’s something that they’re very passionate about. It’s become their sort of life project. So, um, they don’t plan to stop doing that. 

RANEY ARONSON-RATH: Can you tell me a little bit about the conversations that they had, with their family? One reporter talks really emotionally about that. Tell us about that. 

GESH MOHAMMAD: Yes, It’s it’s kind of funny, you sort, of, I think sometimes um, some of the feedback I had was, you know, sometimes when you look at Olga and in the film you forget that, they’re actually also mothers, um, and they, they have their own children. And, um, they obviously— when the war started and they decided, you know, that they would not censor themselves. They would continue to report as they want to do. Um, they had to have very difficult conversations with their husbands and their children about what the risks are. Um, and so they essentially, what they did was to sort of separate the personal from their work was they essentially rented this apartment, which they use as sort of safe house where they keep, documents, passports, in case they get sort of rated at normal residence, um, they can run off to the safe house, and get their passports and then flee Russia. Um, so they’ve obviously, they’ve really adapted the way that they operate, um, to ensure that they’re doing so as safely as possible. 

RANEY ARONSON-RATH:So let’s now talk about a law professor named Roman. He’s on the other side of the country in Russia. And his parents live in Ukraine. He was really critical of the war just in an online post. And then he was charged under Putin’s new laws. What does that mean for him?

GESH MOHAMMAD: You know, there are estimated 11 million Russians who have relatives on the other side of the border in Ukraine. Um, and so when Ukraine got attacked, um, obviously what he did was on social media, he said no to war, um, which he says, you know, he thought was a good thing. As a result of that and sort of reposting a video um, about the war, he was accused of disseminating unreliable or false information against the Russian army. And he has, he has since lost his job as a law professor. Um, and he’s no longer able to work as a law professor. And so he’s now appealing  that charge and // trying to get his job back. 

RANEY ARONSON-RATH: Hmm. What about his parents? How are his parents doing?

GESH MOHAMMAD: His parents live in Nikopol, in Ukraine, which since the summer has come under increasingly more bombardment by the Russians. Um, and so they are living in constant fear. They’re not leaving the house, obviously. Um, his father has health issues and he doesn’t wanna go down to the basement, which is slightly safer than being above ground. Um, so, so Roman is continuously very, very worried about what might happen to his parents, but also when he might be able to ever see them again. Um, which is a sort of very tragic consequence of this war for him. 

RANEY ARONSON-RATH: Moving on to a really brave young woman named Natalia. talk to me about how she was sharing what she was seeing in Russia.

GESH MOHAMMAD: Yes, Natalia’s very brave and impressive. Her teenage years and her early twenties were spent in Britain. And she has the idea of freedom. She’s accustomed to freedom and she believes, um, freedom of speech and when the fourth of March law, um, came in regarding fake news and false information she obviously realized there was no one reporting on —well, there was barely anyone left reporting on — what was happening inside Russia. So she essentially started her own TikTok channel using her British sim card or cell phone to access TikTok because TikTok had banned Russians from adding content to TikTok. So she essentially started reporting what was happening inside Russia because there were just very few people doing that at that stage. Um, and she co she covers propaganda. So the sort of Russian propaganda that has really increased since the war. 

Sound: [Russian singing]

NATALIA [from TikTok]: Happy Crimea Day. Eight years ago, Russia annexed Crimea. The tagline of the event is ‘For victory, and for the world without Nazis.’ The level of ridiculousness is escalating really fast. 

GESH MOHAMMAD: And she also went to protests and reported on what was happening at those protests. Um, so she was really giving us an inside view of what was happening on the ground. 

RANEY ARONSON-RATH: Yeah, I mean, what I was curious about with Natalia is how does she know the truth of what’s happening? Like, how is it possible that she’s able to see through the propaganda and differentiate enough to understand what’s actually happening? 

GESH MOHAMMAD: I think Natalia, like many other Russians of her generation who were born in the nineties and had this — they, you know, they were born into a period where there was hope that Russia would move towards a more liberal, liberal democracy.And there was hope of like, it taking a more Western approach, um, to its model of governance. So it has always been very much in touch with the West and reading, for example, you know, the BBC, um, and reading western newspapers like the New York Times. And that’s what she trusts. She trusts the Western media. Um, so when she senses a sort of massive gap in how things are reported, she obviously trusts the Western media. Particularly, I guess what upsets her most is this idea that, that Russia’s currently, through its propaganda, is trying to create this impression that the West hates Russia because that’s not her experience of living abroad. Um, but she’s also, she’s in touch with lots of activists inside Russia and she also works, uh, for an NGO which helps activists who are under prosecution leave Russia. So she’s very much sort of tied into that world, and that’s where she gains a lot of her information from,

RANEY ARONSON-RATH: You know, one of the gravest stories in the documentary, which really kept me up at night, is the story about the young artist named Sasha. Tell us how Sasha got in trouble in the first place.

GESH MOHAMMAD: When sort of protesting became really difficult inside Russia because of mass arrests, Sasha decided to create stickers that look like sort of supermarkets price tags, um, or price labels. And she started putting those in supermarkets. And what those price tags contained were information about the war in Ukraine or her views about what Putin is doing. Um, and, and what happened was that a pensioner, um, essentially informed against her and the police used surveillance cameras to track her down and arrest her. And now she’s facing up to 10 years imprisonment for essentially doing what seems very sort of innocuous to us. Um, but there is no space inside Russia for those sorts of views. 

RANEY ARONSON-RATH: Hmm. And is there any update on her story at all today?

GESH MOHAMMAD: Um, well we, there isn’t any sort of major development at the moment obviously. Her partner Sonia, is continuing to do everything that she can to try to get her to be on house arrest while they await trial, um, because she’s currently just in custody, essentially um, while they await trial, and now she’s been in custody for how many months? Seven months. 

RANEY ARONSON-RATH: It seems to me like the films that you’ve done with us have really touched mostly on surveillance and suppression of free speech. You did do, of course, climate change too, but I’m just looking at the three films in particular you did — of course, this one, you also did China Undercover and Battle for Hong Kong. How do you compare the process of making those films compared with this one?

GESH MOHAMMAD: Um, it’s been really interesting because when we started this, um, sort of as a development, this project, um, you know, I hadn’t quite understood how um how authoritarian Russia had turned when it started the war in Ukraine. Um, but very quickly it became clearer that the risk assessment that I was writing for Putin’s War At Home, was very similar to the one that we wrote for China Undercover. Um, which signaled that essentially Russia  is becoming an authoritarian state very similar to the sort of Chinese model, um, where there’s sort of very, very, limited freedom of speech and where you know, you can’t go around freely reporting. Um, and so essentially from that, it became apparent that, you know, first of all that I myself wouldn’t be able to go to Russia and that we had to basically sort of remotely direct and produce this film. Um, but what I’ve always been interested is essentially that sort of human story of this sort of 21st century world, which is increasingly engaged in this sort of struggle between, you know, authoritarianism and liberal democracy and it’s very different operating in a country like, um, Russia, which obviously, you know, Vasiliy did very, very well, um, than how we operate here in the West. 

RANEY ARONSON-RATH: Yeah. And I, I think that’s really the key, right? Is that you’re continuing to tell these stories that are hard to get, and I think they’re — they couldn’t be more important. For the Russian participants that you were following, did the atmosphere of risk change over the course of production? I mean, I know early in March you said, you know, obviously there was a law right against protesting the war and the type of journalism they were practicing. But did you see additional changes throughout the course of reporting?

GESH MOHAMMAD: Absolutely. Um, that’s a really important question. I mean, when we started this project, there were many more people that were willing to take part. Um, and that was because people didn’t know yet how these laws actually impact freedom of speech. Um, but as the sort of as, as the summer went on, um, people were dropping out withdrawing their consent from this film. Um, so we had to sort of restart the entire production. By the summer, all the protests had died down. Um, and it was becoming increasingly difficult, um, to make this film. And in addition to that, there was a new law passed in the summer, which effectively bans Russians from working with, um, foreign organizations like the media, um, without the consent of the security services. So people were very, very afraid to speak to us. But I guess that’s what makes all of our, um, interviewees and contributors so unique in their braveness.

RANEY ARONSON-RATH: Yeah. I mean it, it certainly does, right? And, and we rely on people like this, but I also rely on producers like yourself who have a lot of experience actually with informed consent and really making sure that when you’re working with people who are, who are telling these stories, that you were thinking about their safety. How do you have those conversations overall with them.

GESH MOHAMMAD: Um, it’s, it’s, it’s very difficult, because when you’re asking people to take part in these films, you also are aware that there are risks to them. Um, and so we, we had, um, we had obviously Vasiliy Kolotilov, um, was on the ground having those conversations, but we also had – separately to that, we had, um, you know, I had calls, um, with, you know, Vasiliy translating, um, explaining the risks to each of our contributors, um, and ensuring that they were not just aware of the risks, but um, also happy to take those risks. Um, so, but alongside that, you know, we also have very strict protocols for each shoot. Um, you know, we talk about  them with the contributors um because, because that’s the only way to sort of really mitigate the risks to ensure that we don’t arouse suspicion, um of the authorities while we’re operating on the ground. You have to always imagine the worst case scenario and to do everything that you can to prevent that from happening. 

RANEY ARONSON-RATH: What are you hoping that FRONTLINE audiences will take away from this?

GESH MOHAMMAD: I think that, um, one of the, one of the sort of things that really struck me while having various conversations with both, you know, some of our unnamed team and as well as the participants in the film, um, was that we often think of sort of human rights repressions in a country as something that doesn’t impact us, Um, and it’s something sort of foreign that’s happening in another country. But what really came across on this was that some of which, um, also, you know, Vasiliy, our producer explained to me was that once Putin had asserted enough control within Russia, Putin took that control abroad and its building into Ukraine and it’s essentially, I guess this is sort of an example of how internal authoritarianism can become a global threat.

RANEY ARONSON-RATH: Yeah, and I think that that’s a running theme that you have throughout your work and I thank you for it. Thanks again for coming on the Dispatch with me.

GESH MOHAMMAD: Thank you so much for having me.

RANEY ARONSON-RATH: Thanks so much to Gesh Mohammad for talking with me about FRONTLINE’s documentary Putin’s War At Home. You can watch Putin’s War At Home and other recent films about Russia and the war in Ukraine on frontline.org, as well as FRONTLINE’s YouTube channel, and the PBS Video App.